Introducing UserAuthority (UA), @steem-ua and UA-API !

smartsteem (71) · 6 years ago

We are proud to support this initiative and hope to not only show with words and a welcoming upvote, but with actions.

We strongly believe that the way to make this blockchain stronger is by empowering the best users and their communities, so this initiative not only makes sense, it’s exactly the type of project this community needs more of.

To the @steem-ua team: we offer our sincere congratulations on the launch of this project.

We are looking forward to the positive impact it will have on the community and the blockchain.

Team Smartsteem

$7.91

17 votes

markdeheide (67) · 6 years ago

Hey @smartsteem love your service, I'm wondering how can I get access to the *exclusive votes on smartsteem.com?

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holger80 (72) · 6 years ago

Thank you for your great support!

ashokchoudhary (25) · 6 years ago

Please support me bro

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steemflow (72) · 6 years ago

What define a high quality creator??? Though i belive UA is best thing to happen on steem still people will take time to understand the basic of algorithm...still waiting for the best....congratulation @scipio for bringing up the ultimate change

Posted using Partiko Android

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

Thanks @therealwolf for supporting this , are you supporting by delegating or doing development for this ?

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meno (73) · 6 years ago

there is going to be some collab dev happenings in the soons.

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

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therealwolf (75) · 6 years ago

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stellabelle (75) · 6 years ago

Yessssssssss

Posted using Partiko iOS

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https://steemit.com/@aris54

aris54 (30) · 6 years ago

follow n vote

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The Art of Commenting
Comment Classifications

spaminator (68) · 6 years ago

Source
Leaving comments asking for votes, follows, or other self promotional messages could be seen as spam.

More Information:

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dynamicrypto (71) · 6 years ago

Agreed! just delegated 100SP to UA and have been delegating 100SP to smartmarket! Two great initiatives I am lucky to be a part of!

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kingsleydaprof (25) · 6 years ago

Great work needs to be done

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lextenebris (62) · 6 years ago

You guys really need to put together some graphs so that the users have a better grasp of what the distribution of UA is across the population.

For example, I know from the table on the website what the high-end distribution looks like – but I have no idea whether outside of the rich and famous, I'm doing okay, I am coming in at a pack level which is less than impressive for my content creation, or how UA is distributed throughout the population as a whole so I know if there are Pareto curve representations or other longtail effect.

I have a number but I don't have any context, and I need that context. Without the context, I don't actually know what that number means in relation to the numbers given to people elsewhere on the blockchain. I don't know if it even is meaningful.

So, some sort of graph which shows the distribution of UA across the population in general. Some kind of graph or other representation which shows the distribution of UA and what accounts are in the area that I am in terms of my ranking. And some kind of way for me to put my account in and have the UA ratings fan out from my account along the links from people I follow and who follow me. All of these are going to be something really critical to demonstrating what this number is actually supposed to mean and how people can use it.

I look forward to seeing some of the stuff come to fruition and maybe power some useful tools.

$5.67

12 votes

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Here you go ;-)

6 votes

lextenebris (62) · 6 years ago

Well, this looks extremely familiar. It's the same curve which describes the distribution of SP across the population, except that it doesn't flatten out at the end quite as quickly.

Taken as a sum, how far down the curve in number of accounts before half of the population has half of the total UA ranking in play? About 20%?

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cryptoctopus (74) · 6 years ago

This kind of curve is the product of nature, you can't get a normal distribution in anything when human action is involved. Pareto distribution is all we'll ever gonna get.

lextenebris (62) · 6 years ago

A Pareto distribution is natural; it is normal. You see it outside of human activity as well; anytime that there is an advantage to be had in an agent population by having more of a thing to get some of the thing, you get Pareto longtail distributions.

A lot of the discussion around cryptocurrency and especially around steem seems to go in a direction which denies that Pareto optimizations are desirable or necessary, and flying in the face of logic and reason like that is a good, solid way to fail.

So – we have another Pareto-reflecting curve on our hands with an exponential top-end and an exponential bottom end. What we really need is some way to visualize the difference between the rankings of the accounts involved in the traditional Reputational curve and the ranking derived from UA, and whether or not they are significantly different in ordinal rank for any given account or whether they, by and large, are in as much lockstep as they appear to be.

Because if it's just Rep but with a few accounts left out, it's not really very useful or revelatory. If it's a different Pareto distribution of the account list, how much different is it?

We could start to figure out how different they are with some pretty simple tools. You could start with a simple diff of the ordered list of all of the accounts by Rep next to all of the accounts ordered by UA. If there are transitions or transformations, that would be an easy way to start getting a handle on how to visualize them. (I'm thinking in particular of diff algorithms which let you know for any given member/line where/how much it has been moved, which is really all we care about. Magnitude of move and direction of move should be pretty easy to depict in some sort of graphical way.

After all, we know that UA takes significant computational resources to calculate. It has to be updated, effectively, for accounts of interest, every time there is a transfer within the event horizon of any given account. That means there's a significant cost for calculating UA for any given account. If it doesn't really do better than Rep for the vast majority of the account list, that's a lot of wasted energy.

So this is the kind of thing we need to see in order to determine if this is actually a useful metric or just another way to write Rep that takes longer and kills more electrons.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

One example where UA shines is in - for example - recognizing @thejohalfiles as being influential. Without blogging an account cannot get upvoted nor increase its Rep score.

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lextenebris (62) · 6 years ago

It's interesting that you would use that example, because it supports my position that follows are definitely not useful as an indicator of quality.

This account has no blog posts. It's influence is not related to its interaction with the social network in an observable way. While it does have a number of comments, none of them are particularly revelatory or insightful beyond a base level I expect of all people who interact with others on the social network.

So there's no reason to think that this one should "shine" at all.

And that's a problem, because we as users – no matter what we want to use UA for or what we imagine it might be used for – need to understand the reason that one account may be higher rank in UA than another. As it stands, and as the explanation and descriptions have changed, UA becomes an ever more amorphous single number attached to accounts which, in some way, at great computational expense, provides a number. One which doesn't come with an understanding of why that number is what it is, one that hinges on an interpretation of the platform mechanics which is unintuitive, and one which appears to be fairly readily gameable by engaging in behavior which isn't in the best interest of the way people are using the social network.

I think those issues are a problem.

But first we have to have an understanding of how UA differs from Rep in a real sense, in the context of comparing the two spaces as they stand – and you clearly have all the data necessary to do exactly that at this point, so let's do that.

After that, we can talk about what is going to be necessary for UA to be a meaningful designator, in part by allowing the system to give feedback to a user about why the ranking is exactly what it is.

We know exactly what Rep is all about and what it hinges on. It's about getting voted on. Stuff you make gets votes, your Rep goes up, it's a very simple signifier (even if it has some very obvious flaws as a comparator).

UA is a black box, and the things that you've said about what go into making the black box tick don't really jibe with creating a useful singular ranking of accounts for the purposes of a user looking to discover content, which is the one thing that it should do.

One example where UA shines is in - for example - recognizing @thejohalfiles as being influential.

Ultimately, on the issue of UA, we have to ask what "being influential" means if it's not about actually blogging or not about actually engaging people in comments. What kind of influence are we talking about? Because if it's just "this is an account that throws around a lot of SP," we already have very clear rankings for those.

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jaki01 (74) · 6 years ago

So there's no reason to think that this one should "shine" at all.

A good reputation (UA score), being highly regarded and thus having many followers, can also be based for example on being a good developer, a wise witness or a precious curator.

And finally, if there is no logical reason at all for having a high UA score, then many people could simply decide to unfollow a certain account so that its UA would decrease.

scipio (65) · 6 years ago (edited)

PS: This is a log-scaled UA Score distribution, on a 0.00 - 10.00 scale, where it gets increasingly harder to go from 7.00 to 8.00 than it is from 2.00 to 3.00.

PS2: this is merely a UA representation right now. Things could change drastically now that UA is out in "the wild", making people more aware of who to (un)follow.

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lextenebris (62) · 6 years ago

Right, which is pretty much in line with SP in that sense. It might be worth plotting this with Y scaled log to flatten it out more for differentiation.

In fact, it'd be an interesting comparison to see how UA and SP scale accounts in different orders, or by how much it does. At some level, it's already described as a bit of a proxy. The question is whether it is ranking things significantly differently or largely the same in aggregate.

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

Also consider , when relying heavily on follows it will inevitably lead to a black market of -

Will follow for X $ for Y Days $

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lextenebris (62) · 6 years ago

If anything, paying for follows will be considerably easier than paying for votes. Follows cost nothing. And while each additional follow scales the overall value of your following by the number you follow, despite all the effort on the front end to screen for isolated island networks and the like, it will be extremely easy to build inheritance architectures of follows that fairly straightforwardly game the system as long as one or a few witnesses jump on board, and given that there are witnesses who are heavily involved in the bot community as is – why wouldn't they?

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

I really appreciate the effort by devs but the criteria needs to be really diverse for the rankings to be meaningful in longer run.

From my previous comment, factors such as :

average number of votes received for each post , how soon someone replies to their comment , uniqueness and length of comments made/received , unique average posts made each day ?

bashadow (65) · 6 years ago

Hello, I do not think I have run across your account before. So we may run in entirely different areas of steemit. A comparison of our UA may help me understand what the number means.
According to the UA web site, my stats: "score is 4.009 and you have a ua rank of 3389"

	Me	You
Rep	58	59
Followers	1408	539
Following	133	68
SP	720	680
Age	Aug-17	Nov-17

Fairly close numbers. Most of my content is just new user related, recently a few photo post, and for most of Jan-July a steemit game/challenge. So basically average to below average post quality.

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Show 7 more replies

itstime (60) · 6 years ago

Hey @shaka ,

tks for the upvotes...fam

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katamori (50) · 6 years ago

You're truly a hero: not only making the idea work out both in theory and practice but also spending time and effort to make responses like this.

You rock.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Thx! ;-)

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markkujantunen (74) · 6 years ago

Agreed.

phoenixwren (65) · 6 years ago

I second this! :)

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shaka (72) · 6 years ago (edited)

You are proposing a new Reputation metric of which only those users can benefit who delegate to the entity that computes it (in a black box). Am I getting this right?

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7 votes

scipio (65) · 6 years ago (edited)

No you're dead wrong actually on those assumptions:

-1- don't confuse UA (the influence / rep metric) with @steem-ua (the algorithmic curation program using the UA metric). Our UA-API broadcasts all accounts' UA data, to be eligible for a @steem-ua upvote we need to limit access (we'd need 100 million SP to upvote all content on the Steem blockchain!), and delegating SP is that delimiter. BTW, a @steem-ua upvote is completely independent from the amount being delegated.

-2- UA is *not a "black box", our algo is open source, our code is open source, we just haven't published the repos yet because we need to document it properly first and do some more unit testing. Also don't confuse UA-API data access with a "black box", we merely need to control server access to avoid system overloads.

(edit, upvoted for visibility & clarity)

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shaka (72) · 6 years ago

a @steem-ua upvote is completely independent from the amount being delegated.

The amount of the delegation buys the frequency of the steem-ua vote. If that's not counting as buying upvotes then I don't know what it is.

UA is *not a "black box", our algo is open source, our code is open source, we just haven't published the repos yet ...

Well, as soon as the code is out and thus accessible for review and independent testing I'll be happy to not label the UA metric a black-box anymore.

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6 votes

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

The amount of the delegation buys the frequency of the steem-ua vote.

Well no! :-)
The more SP delegators there are, the more contributions we'll curate algorithmically, and the higher the UA_Vote threshold will be to get an upvote at all.

I clearly said max. 1/2/3/7 upvotes per week, not guaranteed "bids" or anything

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church-of-piglet (50) · 6 years ago

Thanks for asking this 8-).

flugschwein (60) · 6 years ago

Currently it looks like this, yes. But this will change. I believe that UA will get adopted by many steem services, and the code is planned to go open source soon as well, so that black box will get "removed" soon as well.
I do think that UA will be implemented in many more places. I'm just mentioning a trending feed based on a post's UA, and not it's payout value! This would possibly be something everyone could benefit from. But because UA is still very new, there aren't many use cases out yet. Stay tuned for the new ones!

PS: I rather see @steem-ua as some kind of Proof of Concept for that new reputation metric

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shaka (72) · 6 years ago

I'm just mentioning a trending feed based on a post's UA

I can already see the daily reports coming in.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Why the cynicism?

shaka (72) · 6 years ago

My apologies for that. You are right, there was no need for spinning my objection that way.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Okido, evertbody gets "cranky" sometimes ;-)

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reggaemuffin (66) · 6 years ago

Nice work on actually implementing this @scipio!

I am still not convinced that followers are a good metric and I will not change my follow habits for ua.

I am intrigued when selling high ua followers will be a thing ;)

If UA proves to be a good metric, I will see to add it to minnowbooster and steemvoter. Having the api closed is sad but understandable. I suggest you look into caching ua scores in a database and have a web service just look them up. Once you have the data, lookups are dirt cheap.

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7 votes

katamori (50) · 6 years ago

I'd assume you can tweak the algorithm just like Google did and is doing constantly so that exploitations vanish.

Also can't imagine so many high UA users can be corrupted that "buying UA follow" would be worthy.

shaka (72) · 6 years ago

Tweaking until which endpoint? How would the UA derived content ranking need to look like before it's considered a good metric? As soon as the majority of the high UA-accounts are happy with trending? No cynicism here, I really would wish to get an answer to that.

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7 votes

katamori (50) · 6 years ago

Personally, I already consider it much better than, like, anything else in the ecosystem (SP, reputation, etc).

But nothing's perfect, even Google and Youtube witnessed shortcuts and exploitations at one point.

For them, user satisfaction with the accuracy of results was the major driving factor, and I'd imagine this is what Steem needs, too.

That when I go to /r/cryptocurrency, or in fact, any blockchain-related community, I don't have to hear people shitting on Steem and how trashy its content is.

That when I go to Trending, I don't have to scrool through 42 pages of marketing garbage or cliché garbage before finding ONE interesting post.

I don't give a fuck about the satisfaction of high-UA accounts. I just want quality improvement and less circlejerk.

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8 votes

abh12345 (76) · 6 years ago

Considering how many of the top 100 UA scorers are bidbot owners and/or delegators, I would think they are already 'happy' with Trending.

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katamori (50) · 6 years ago

Bidbot owners, not the bots themselves. UA can contribute to break bot dominance.

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reggaemuffin (66) · 6 years ago

We will see how it plays out. I hope that the ua score becomes a good metric over time.

sn0n (60) · 6 years ago

Wondering.. why do I have to login with steem connect to see my score? The less places that I login (steemconnect or otherwise) the better IMO... Thoughts?

Posted using Partiko Android

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6 votes

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Just a way to secure data access, its safe as can be, ask @fabien! :-)

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ajayyy (65) · 6 years ago

But why can't I look at other people's UA without using the API? Why would I need to log in for that?

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

The level of UA computations is... pretty extreme. The server costs are something to consider as well. That's why we limited full UA-API access to UA Registered Partners.

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ajayyy (65) · 6 years ago

Is it open source?

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flugschwein (60) · 6 years ago

It isn't yet. But it is planned to go open source soon.

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

It is ;-)

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

It is, we just haven't deployed the repo(s) yet.

kipswolfe (49) · 6 years ago

How much do I have to delegate to become a UA Registered Partner?

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flugschwein (60) · 6 years ago

I think you just have to contact either one of the owners about your idea of using UA and they will consider adding you to that Partner program. So it is not based on delegations as far as I know. (Especially since UserAuthority is the reputation metric you want access to, and @steem-ua only is a curation service making use of UA)

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raj808 (71) · 6 years ago (edited)

You should get in touch with @curie and ask them for curators stats for rewarding exceptional content on steemit and somehow incorporate this into this reputation system. Curie curators put in a huge amount of time and effort behind the scenes with little benefit to their rep, in fact often the amount of time spent curating prevents them from blogging to help drive their rep up.

Would it be possible to incorporate the amount of work they put in to help user retention within your algorithm @steem-ua? I'm thinking taking the curie Approval rating and curation score and somehow calculating how much engagement they have driven simply by doing what they do.

Full disclosure, I'm a curie curator ;-)

P.s. I really like the system and the vision behind what you are doing here, I have delegated 50 sp of my stake. I stopped using bidbots on principle around 8 months ago and my crawl up to rep 60 has been slow and painful despite only publishing medium to long posts, mainly creative writing which I feel is to a high standard. There is definitely a need for a rep system which disregards the influence of bidbots and it seems you've managed it! Awesome job :-)

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steem-ua (64) · 6 years ago (edited)

Hey @raj808, thanks for the kind words! Integrating with other communities, dApps, curation systems, SMT & external airdrops etc etc is of course on our roadmap. We've only been "live" for 4 days now!

One thing though, please don't confuse:

UA, the influence metric
UA-API, our data providing service broadcasting various sorts of UA data
@steem-ua, our Algorithmic Curation Program, using UA data.

What could (also, possibly?) not might be 100% clear (to people) is that there are various sorts of UA scores:

UA_Account: that's the data you see on our website https://steem-ua.com/ (and various other sources already)
UA_Post: that's our curation algo regarding the votes a post itself received
UA_Comment: deals with the level on user engagement on a specific post.

Those various things together determine UA_Vote.

^^ I'll post about this, and other updates regarding UA, UA-API and @steem-ua, shortly hereafter!

Cheers! (@scipio)

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raj808 (71) · 6 years ago

Thank you for your response @scipio and making clear the various sections of the system. What their functions are etc.

Integrating with other communities, dApps, curation systems, SMT & external airdrops etc etc is of course on our roadmap. We've only been "live" for 4 days now!

I guess I did jump the gun a bit. What I was trying to get at was some sort of way to include active (guild curie/OCD etc) curators curation activity to count toward their ua score. It would be wonderful if, in the future, this could be incorporated as these curators really do spend a huge amount of time retaining and building steemit user-base.

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punqtured (58) · 6 years ago (edited)

First obvious question from someone highly interested in finding and rewarding high quality content creators: Is there an API to retrieve a user's UA ? I'll ask @Fabien directly to see if it's possible to have it built into SteemConnect (that the Byteball rewards rely on) for an even easier access.

Congratulations on the massive progress. Guess it must be incredibly satisfying to take a look back and see how far you've managed to get in such short amount of time. Props to both you and @Holger80.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Access to our UA-API will be given to Registered UA Partners: just talk to @scipio and/or @holger80 on our Discord ;-)

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ua-promoter (65) · 6 years ago

You're doing great job to make Steemit better, but please, if possible, do not use #ua hash tag.

#ua is for Ukrainian posts, https://laendercode.net/en/country/ua
the same as #ru, #tr, #kr , #cn

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9 votes

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

I didn't realize the #ua tag was taken already by the Ukraine! ;-)

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katamori (50) · 6 years ago

What about #steem-ua ?

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

We don't need any tags to detect posts to be scored / upvoted on actually ;-)

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stevescoins (68) · 6 years ago

yall need somebody to whip up some badges for you (*somebody not me ;> )

I could always use another pretty pic in my sig !

#505 UA rank wooo-hoooo!

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steem-ua (64) · 6 years ago

Cool idea! :-)

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mazzle (63) · 6 years ago

This is awesome work guys, I'd be happy to throw a 100SP delegation your way. Can you drop some delegation links at the bottom of your post?

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

I will!
But you could also use https://steembottracker.com/delegation.html for easy delegations to @steem-ua, a nice tool by @yabapmatt !

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jaki01 (74) · 6 years ago

Nice to see that finally the introduction post is out! :)

One of the effects of this post was to stimulate me to start checking more thoroughly whom I should follow and whom not. :)

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

I always knew you were a wise man! :-)

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stackin (78) · 6 years ago

Great Script! I'm testing it out as I write this. Only a 6.183 rating. I better step my game up. 😂

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

A UA rank of 226 is not too shabby! :P Only 225 places to the top spot, you can do it! ;-)

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abh12345 (76) · 6 years ago

Hi guys

I know you guys have been working really hard on this, people are unhappy with 'Reputation' as it stands, and hope that UA can act as a fair alternative in the future.

I've delegated a little to support the project.

Thank you and good luck!

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Thx! We'll keep you informed, and upvoted! ;-)

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anthonyadavisii (70) · 6 years ago (edited)

This is a fascinating idea. I've perused the previous article but am having difficulty wrapping my mind completely around it.

I'd like to try and put it into layman's terms if possible. Is the algorithm in a sense a means of formulating an assessment the user's value apart from say circle jerking bots and straight self-voting?

Is the algorithm robust enough to identify users who use proxy accounts to self-vote via bid bots? I know one top witness in particular that engages in this sort of thing and I find it quite deceptive as it makes it seem like they are less of a self-voter than they really are. Basically the activity would entail delegating SP to a bid bot delegation scheme, transfer the liquid Steem/ SBD to their proxy, and then use that account to self-bid.

If possible, I would appreciate if the algo. can account for this sort of apparently veiled behavior and adjust UA accordingly.

BTW,

Put together Steemconnect links to delegate to yall. About to do so myself.

25 SP, 50 SP,100 SP,500 SP,1000 SP

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Good idea!

stellabelle (75) · 6 years ago

Congratulations!!!!! I remember when you were telling me about this and IM SO GLAD YOUVE MADE IT THIS FAR! Let’s do this.

Posted using Partiko iOS

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Thx! We're adding more and more UA functionality as fast as we can! ;-)

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paulag (73) · 6 years ago

really good work guys, I know how much effort went into this. Steemit needs an improved reputation system and this is for sure a giant step forward.

I would like to use your api in some data posts and maybe also a project I have been working on. Will dm you on discord to find out more about this.

Also I was lucky to get a few votes while you were trying things out, nice and thanks.

Oh a question, as being a "top witness helps" and also "we use that Witness Stake to propagate "Trust" from each witness to the accounts it follows" I would like to ask you what about witness teams where the witness account may represent a number of witnesses?

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abh12345 (76) · 6 years ago (edited)

I would like to ask you what about witness teams where the witness account may represent a number of witnesses?

I asked about this the other day and for witness teams, the UA scoring of the witness account is transferred to the team member/s :) I think that's the right terminology but happy to be corrected.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Correct @abh12345 ! The Trust Vector Initiation of the @steemcommunity witness account is split between @paulag and @absh12345 ;-)

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paulag (73) · 6 years ago

and for all other witness teams too? This was a manual job then, well an element of manual

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abh12345 (76) · 6 years ago

They sent me the list, looks complete 😎

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Apart from typing the code, indeed mapping "team witnesses" was the only manual job!

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infidel1258 (67) · 6 years ago

THIS IS A GREAT IDEA! Thank you @tarazkp for putting me on to this.
I have followed @steem-ua, resteemed and delegated!

Super cool, very innovative. Thank you for your hard work!

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therealwolf (75) · 6 years ago

Great job you two. Looking forward on using the API for Smartsteem!

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flugschwein (60) · 6 years ago

Do you already know how you want to implement UA for SmartSteem? Will there be a minimum UA? (that'd be awesome ;) )

lyndsaybowes (71) · 6 years ago

Massive congrats @scipio and @holger80!! It's been incredible watching you take this from an idea to reality. So well done.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Thx sweetie pie! Also for being one of our pre-alpha SP Delegators to @steem-ua!

stellabelle (75) · 6 years ago

Let’s take over the fake game

Posted using Partiko iOS

zoef (64) · 6 years ago

I have been following the UA for a long time. I have been talking to scipio for a long time now. A strong mind with great idees I am happy to see this finaly come to fruition and i hope it gets the support that it deserves.

You wil get my delegation soon!

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Thx for the kind words and your support! It's greatly appreciated @ZoeF!

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flauwy (73) · 6 years ago

Fantastic work, I am looking forward to work with the UA API for the 1UP project!

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

The UA-API is working now @flauwy! Just talk to me on Discord and we'll set you up!

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ezraswish (50) · 6 years ago

So we now have 2 available rep systems and this one rewards you for delegating to it?

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Well, not exactly:

UA is the "new Reputation metric"
@steem-ua is our Algorithmic Curation Program, using UA data to evaluate contributions, and you can enter its program by delegating SP to @steem-ua.

So @steem-ua is an application using the metric UA; let's not confuse the two! ;-)

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as-abir (45) · 6 years ago

Great post I liked it very much. I could have invested only if I had only 5 SBD

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

If you cannot afford a 25 SP delegation, we have a Gift Program as well! Just join our Discord and talk to us for @steem-ua access!

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katamori (50) · 6 years ago

Oh my God, I'm so fucking glad it already happens! Ever since read @scipio 's initial proposal, I've been waiting for this system to become visible and usable in practice.

Huge kudos for doing it!

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Yo Adrian, we did it! (From Rocky :P )

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arcange (73) · 6 years ago

Congratulations @steem-ua!
Your post was mentioned in the Steemit Hit Parade in the following categories:

Upvotes - Ranked 5 with 1468 upvotes
Comments - Ranked 3 with 172 comments
Pending payout - Ranked 2 with $ 478,14

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Whihoo!

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pibara (60) · 6 years ago

Wouldn't it be more logically to try and calculate a "bot-free" version of the users rep? Seems vote bots are what is braking the rep system, so if you could manage to subtract known bot rshare contribution from rep score, you should have something quite good without having to totally reinvent a metric.

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

@thejohalfiles for example is extremely influential as being a Steem Angel. He deserves a high UA score for doing good deeds, but when an account doesn't blog, it also doesn't increase its Rep score.

magali (47) · 6 years ago

Something else to consider is down vote attacks which can render an account useless by pushing its rep to < 0.

A single high SP user can keep down voting another user's posts and eventually that 2nd user's posts no longer will display by default via #steemit or #busy.

This metric, if used to replace the existing rep score would remove that particular type of personal attack vector.

The ability of a single high SP user to effectively bar other users from the #steemit platform by the simple use of down votes is a sign of a definite and very serious flaw with the existing rep system.

While not a perfect measure of an account's value to the #steem ecosystem the UA score is a definite 100,000% improvement (IMHO).

pibara (60) · 6 years ago

When looking at @pibarabot's reports, there are basically four kinds of flag usage:

Policing flags against abusers
Corrective flags against disproportional projected payouts
Capricious flags by some of the big guys: because they can.
Retaliation flags. Tid for tad.

I used to think capricious flags were a big problem before I started looking into it. @freezepeach has the low end of this problem covered and while we could probably use an orca sized @freezepeach, the number of people affected by true capriciousness is actually quite limited.

Today I believe the true problem with flags is the culture of fear brought on by retaliation. Most users really don't flag enough for reason #1 and #2 out of fear. If they did, crap post that bought their place into trending would likely get flagged down en-mass and we wouldn't have the self amplifying bidbots reputation problems.

Use bidbots, increase your rep, become immune to reputation damage because of your high pseudo rep, and from monetary concequences as well, as people with lower rep won't risk flagging you out of fear for retaliation.
In fact, people with higher rep won't dare to flag you because they know your rep will surpass theirs because of the bidbots, and you might retaliate later.

magali (47) · 6 years ago

The "fix" you suggest assumes someone has lots of steem to spend.

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zakia (71) · 6 years ago

Nice to introduce with u.

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Likewise! :-)

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jasonbu (61) · 6 years ago

This is great @scipio, congrats at rolling it out. I can't wait to see this incorporated into other dapps. Over time it will be much more meaningful than the current user rep. Definitely look to incorporate into my upcoming projects. I'll be sending my delegation shortly. Keep up the great work.

Had to check my UA out... Was a bit worried but after seeing it... Not so much now.

Welcome jasonbu!
Your ua score is 3.988 and you have a ua rank of 3483
Last blocknumber included: 25417030, Updated at: 2018-08-26T21:52:51

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

The door to entering the top 3K is wide open for you! :-)

gadrian (66) · 6 years ago

I haven't been very happy with the way the current reputation score is implemented, and the fact it can easily be boosted via purchased votes.

Your system might not be perfect, but it is an alternative working in a completely different way than the current reputation score.

When there are alternatives we can choose what to pay attention to, and there is a better chance of progress.

So, thank you for this project! I've delegated some SP to @steem-ua (maybe more later on).

$0.07

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Cool! Thank you for the delegation support!

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gutzygwin (62) · 6 years ago

I will use this also for the steemjet website once its back online with its database well functional.... Thanks @scipio for letting me in on the project. It's quite fascinating.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Cool!

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stellabelle (75) · 6 years ago

Posted using Partiko iOS

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

This gif always make me smile! :-)

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

so the message of GIF is - we are all dogs in here and licking each other's behind for coins and we call it STEEMIT ?

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

What's the message of your avatar's facial expression? :-)

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

I am watching the STEEM rocket taking off to moon !!

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

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skycornish (55) · 6 years ago

Keep up the great work!!

steembluepages (46) · 6 years ago (edited)

Wow, great concept. We're following this project with interest. Will happily list @steem-ua in the next update of our directory.

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Cool! Appreciated!

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greer184 (59) · 6 years ago

I understand how this score is a better measure of reputation and is harder to be bought, but I'm struggling to the understand the overall point of having this score. Granted as someone who enjoys derived statistics and data science this is cool, why should anybody care about improving their UA score? It's not like reputation currently serves any real purpose right now outside of filtering some spam for some interfaces.

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

There are many reasons to care about one's UA score, but of course that all depends on how wide UA is integrated throughout the Steem Blockchain and multiple services:

@punqtured from ByteBall for example wants to integrate UA to determine ByteBall airdrop amounts with, and determine if an account should be eligible for a Steem Attestation at all;
@smartsteem will use minimum UA-scores to use their bid services at all
@steem-ua (our own algorithmic curation service) goes one step further and computes not only the UA-Author scores but also the UA_Post scores which incorporates all votes on any post by looking at each voter's UA score, not their SP.

... and I could go on with these possible use cases until this comment is longer than our intro post ! ;-)
UA has many, many applications

itstime (60) · 6 years ago

Vote trails can customized their vote strengths according to UA score..

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jaki01 (74) · 6 years ago (edited)

I understand how this score is a better measure of reputation and is harder to be bought, but I'm struggling to the understand the overall point of having this score.

In future a high UA score could lead to a higher voting value. In my recent article I mentioned the example formula:

vote_worth = UA(voter) / UA(average) • SP • vote_strength.

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phgnomo (64) · 6 years ago

Keep being awsome @scipio, alternatives to evaluate quality are always welcomed, and since we cant expect steemit Inc to care about these "minor" features, this is a great addition to the community.

But, i have some questioning to do here:

Shouldnt all users scores be public? After all we are talking about a public blockchain, and transparency is always good.
Will the witness be curated and recieve votes by the ua curating bot? This is Just a personal opinion, but If we are talking about better rewards distribution, witness get a big advantage, and since they are already being rewarded for being a witness (and having a big stack) wouldnt they get an even bigger slice of the pie?

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Please keep in mind not to confuse 3 things:

-1- UA, the Reputation / Influence metric
-2- @steem-ua, our own algorithmic curation service
-3- UA-API, broadcasting UA data to UA Registered Partners

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danovan (55) · 6 years ago

Good project! I like it!

curatorcat (67) · 6 years ago

Congratulations @scipio and @holger80! Even though I am pretty new and small, you're addressing something that has bugged me a bit since the start: I'm a "real" account, creating "real" content and constantly in "real" engagement with other community members... and yet others who started about the same time as me have MUCH higher reps because they keep throwing money at bidbots... and don't actually DO anything here, aside from "harvest money."

It'll be interesting to see how this reflects differently. Good luck!

=^..^=

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Just contact us via our Discord and we'll help you! ;-)

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serylt (58) · 6 years ago

This looks like a wonderful, newer and better, version of the reputation scale. I'm contemplating to delegate 25 - 50 SP in the future. :)

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Why in the future? You can earn it back really fast by delegating immediately and publishing high-quality posts!

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ksena (61) · 6 years ago

Very cool idea ...
I delegate

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Thanks for participating!

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luigi-tecnologo (64) · 6 years ago

Good project. Is possible to check others' account user autorithy score?

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Only for UA Registered Partners (at the moment)

pibara (60) · 6 years ago

Would you guys consider adding micro-transaction based authentication to steem-ua for those who rather not use steemconnect for what seems like mere authentication?

I wrote this post on the subject after the name of UserAuthority had me starting to read this article of yours with completely wrong expectations (authority as in authentication rather than authority as in reputation).

I personally feel steemconnect is way overused for services like this that require mere authentication, and it would be really cool if steem-ua could also implement the simpler one of the alternatives (pure micro transaction based authentication).

clixmoney (76) · 6 years ago

It's very nice thing, my ranking is 1807 , I feel that I'm doing well and my score is 4.496, I'm not far from the top users, thanks for making such amazing tool. ☺

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Rank #1807 is alright to begin with, congrats! Simply a matter of keep doing what you're doing and you'll climb up the UA ranks in no time! :-)

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heimindanger (68) · 6 years ago

I'm not sure this is working correctly. Some people who have been inactive for months are higher than me in the rankings, probably because they still have a bunch of witness votes?

katamori (50) · 6 years ago

Not sure if that's a problem, though. It's just one metric among several others. Especially because you and @dtube are both within the top100, which is very well deserved, and, then again, are quite accurate measurements about your usefulness.

In addition, I can still remember your frustration you "unleashed" with Operation Clean Trending. Don't you think it's a potentially amazing chance to help the "trash trending issue"?

Maybe filtering "trending" to high-UA users would work well, isn't it?

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Yes, that works! Actually we'll deploy a UA-based Alternative Trending Page soon ;-)

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katamori (50) · 6 years ago

Oh my...I'm not even sure this amount of teasing is not sexual.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Whahahaha!

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

And a bunch of high-UA followers ;-)
All UA scores change with every (un)follow operation, which we block-stream continuously scanning for ustom_json follow operations (stored in chronological order since the inception of follow ops on Steem).

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balte (69) · 6 years ago

100% upvote and re-steem-i will delegate 50 SP

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Thx! :-)

ragepeanut (62) · 6 years ago

I'm really excited for what UserAuthority will bring to Steem apps and am looking forward to incorporating it in one of my Steem app ideas in the future. Thanks for all the work put into that project, I feel like it will be useful to many!

Just delegated 50SP. My UA score is at 3.341 ouch, but I guess that was to be expected since I only blog in french (except for Utopian posts).

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Sure! Just contact me on our Discord server!

ragepeanut (62) · 6 years ago (edited)

Will definitely do when my project reaches the point of being a MVP! :D

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mattclarke (68) · 6 years ago

This certainly looks like a great alternative. I haven't done a clear out in a while.
If I unfollow a tonne of old, inactive accounts, that'll likely boost my score?

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Nope, but it would slightly increase the UA scores / ranks of the accounts you remain following after cleaning up! ;-)

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mattclarke (68) · 6 years ago

Interesting. Thanks. Mentioned UA in a post today. :)

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

I'm sure you'll progress over time!

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

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newtechblog (63) · 6 years ago

2 days for My First Week ! Lets do it !!!

Welcome newtechblog!

Your ua score is 0.000 and you have a ua rank of 394063

Last blocknumber included: 25417030, Updated at: 2018-08-26T21:52:51

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

You have still outperformed about 700,000 other accounts ;-)

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newtechblog (63) · 6 years ago (edited)

OMG ! Really? How can I see the total number of active accounts?

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

N = 1119102 accounts now ;-)

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newtechblog (63) · 6 years ago

How far from TOP 100? <3

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Only 393,964 spots! ;-)

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newtechblog (63) · 6 years ago

Show must go On !

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eurogee (65) · 6 years ago

This is quite impressive, and I can imagine how much time and effort that was put into this. We appreciate. Congratulations

@eurogee

Posted using Partiko Android

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Thx! :-)

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dotfee (52) · 6 years ago

@steem-ua great concept, it will judge real value of an user

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Well @steem-ua is our Algorithmic Curation Service, using UA data.
UA data itself is the metric, and other services (UA Registered Partners) can also use UA data by reading values via our API service).

But thanks for the kind words!

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dotfee (52) · 6 years ago

thanks @scipio for your support

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shookriya (61) · 6 years ago

Awesome. Thank you for this. Someday soon this playform will be I everything I hope it will be because of people like you folks.

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Thx for the kind words! We do our best! :-)

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flemingfarm (68) · 6 years ago (edited)

Nice to see this come to fruition. Something HAD to change regarding rep around here, delgated 25sp.

With the API now I would love to see a widget or some way that I can integrate my score into my posts as an added graphic at the end. I am not a dev in any regards so not sure if you want to be giving keys to every one posting content. While my score is not very high I still like the idea of "showing it off".

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

We're working on auto-plotting UA score progressions over time and posting them together with our upvote!

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udezee (67) · 6 years ago (edited)

Glad that this initiative has finally kick-started. Will delegate 50sp soon. Kudos to the UA development team ✌️

udezee (67) · 6 years ago

@steem-ua... Dsp done

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Thx! And welcome to @steem-ua !

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teechizzy (49) · 6 years ago (edited)

My pleasure to know delegating to this community will also help my payout.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Haha! Yes that helps you as well! ;-) (Provided you publish high-quality content!)

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ronel (61) · 6 years ago (edited)

I was thinking this UA reputation score will change the current steem reputation score which is beside our usernames, but its not. Its a separate score. I hope and dream that the current steem reputation score will be changed because obviously we could buy our reputation if we want to, which is so sad to think about it.

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

This is just our Intro Post! We'll progress more and more! ;-)

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ronel (61) · 6 years ago

Okay

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crokkon (68) · 6 years ago (edited)

Hey Scipio, Holger, awesome project! Are there any plans to open the algorithm and the access? Why is it closed in the first place?

The first thing about a possible new "reputation" system I would be interested in, is the UA scores from people I perceive as "quality" posters in relation to others and a couple of "well known" steemians. This is currently not possible with only the top 100 UA scores open.

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Thanks @crokkon! We do have UA-API , broadcasting UA data to UA Registered Partners. The core reason for restrictive access are server load / costs: computing UA data is extremely computation-heavy, as you can well imagine I suppose.

Open Sourcing the algorithm itself I did already in November 2017 (well, the base algo that is, we added a number of improvements / sub-algos to it along the way). And Open Sourcing the UA Code Repositories we'll want to do as well, but currently we're still "tweaking" performance and observing how things roll, as the Sybil Defense Detector (which detects and deals with so-called Spider Traps, Follow Rings and other forms of (possibly unintended) abuse) is still computing alongside with the regular daily UA computations.

There's nothing secret about our code, but our data set is so incredibly large we need to wait quite some time before code adjustments and re-computations using those are finished.

Just bare with us on this! ;-)

crokkon (68) · 6 years ago

Thank you for the detailed explanation, @scipio! I understand the reasons for the restrictive access in this early state. I'm aware of your algorithm description from previous posts, but (as you say) this was mostly sketching the approach. A closed and centralized user scoring has shown is deficiencies in various fields and would certainly come with problems for Steem as well. I'm glad you ultimately plan to open it and I'm very much looking forward to updates! :)

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sanmi (64) · 6 years ago (edited)

At first when I checked my score to be 3.628 , I was first shocked 😝 with a feeling that my reputation went from 61 to 3, LOL, but then I realized, this is entirely a new concept. Definitely this is the next great step, and may be the best initiative to help the curators.

I have joined the discord, looks like you already got a good delegation, are these votes to be 100 % ? Some clarity would help.

And after a long time I see, this post is on trending without using any bid bots, so that itself indicates, how this idea is accepted in the community

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

The UA scores shown range between 0.00 and 10.00 and is a logarithmic scaled version of "raw" UA scores.
The @steem-ua account is an Algorithmic Curation Service and upvotes (on posts from authors that have delegated a minimum amount of 25 SP currently) are computed in batches using

UA_Vote = x * UA_Author + y * UA_Post where x and y are the weights we use, and UA_Post = sum(Voting_Strength * UA_Voter).

Or in laymen's terminology: we compute how any post is appreciated by others and who wrote it, to base our upvote on.

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noisy (67) · 6 years ago (edited)

who they follow, and who they follow, etc. etc. etc.

I see one problem with that approach. Personally I do not only follow good people, but also people, which I just want to prefer keep close.

You know the saying:

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

I would not call some of users which I follow as "enemies", but you get the point...

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

I understand your concern, but the follow graph is about the only "tool" available to compute UA influence with (at the core, we incorporate more data for derived UA metrics actually, also the WitnessRank sub-algo for example to initiate the UA Trust Vector with).

But regarding following "your enemies" and passing UA Trust on to them: from a UA perspective it would be best to un-follow them (hence you don't pass on UA to them) and keep an eye on them via @ginabot for example.

PS: please also note that UA changes every 3 seconds, with every new block produced: we stream all custom_json follow operations in chronological order to reconstruct and update the entire follower matrix with. Now that UA is "in the wild", the follow graph could change (drastically?) due to people realizing their influence via who they follow.

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lextenebris (62) · 6 years ago

This was the core argument of one of my objections to UA in the first place, if you will remember.

A follow is not necessarily an endorsement of trust. It never has been sold as an endorsement of trust. It's never been described in the system as an endorsement of trust. All it communicates is that you want to see the content that this account produces.

I imagine that a lot of people follow a lot of accounts that they don't actually want to communicate as "I like this stuff and I endorse this stuff," and it is at some level unreasonable to interpret activity which is explicitly never described as endorsement as tacit endorsement, which makes the rest of the data analysis questionable, on the face of it.

In terms of signaling, it would be far more reasonable to use up votes as the signal of tacit endorsement then follows. Still not perfect, because up votes don't necessarily mean that a person finds everything that an account produces to be trust-worthy, but from a signaling point of view it's far superior. It's also a lot more granular, meaning that you might could scale the amount of UA one account passes on to another by the ratio of up voted to un-voted posts by that account.

It also means you would have a lot more blockchain operations to look at per second, because voting happens a lot more often than following and following – but in a real sense, of getting intentional signals that every user on the platform has some kind of consensus on, it would be measuring the right thing rather than the wrong thing.

The old saying is "garbage in, garbage out," but that applies to the interpretation of the input signaling and input data as well as the quality of the data itself. In this case, I don't think you're actually doing what you should be doing to come to the conclusion that you want to be getting to.

I know I have put this argument forward before and I think it's worth putting out there again.

In short, you're using the wrong metric if you want to capture a real idea of what relationships exist at a trust and support level between accounts. Using follows, all you get is who wants to read what and not why they want to read it.

$1.19

scipio (65) · 6 years ago

A hyperlink wasn't originally intended to function as an "authority metric" either, merely a way to go from page A to B; but that doesn't mean Google is a Bag of Shit for using the entire Link Graph to compute PageRank, is it?

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lextenebris (62) · 6 years ago

It is if you think the hyperlink itself it authority metric. However, it makes sense to say "here is a ranking of pages ordered by the number of things which refer to them, and so long as they match other criterion, it is likely that pages which rank higher on this list may be more useful to you given it your search criterion."

Following on Steemit doesn't even have that much link to authoritativeness, because you're missing several parts of the above architecture. People follow accounts because they want to see the output of those accounts, what you have already stated and gave a fine example right here of an account that you say is influential and important and has a high UA, but literally provides no reason to follow it. You also have said that one should not follow accounts that one doesn't want to provide endorsement to in terms of whatever it is that UA is supposed to demonstrate, and you expect that people's behavior should and will change as a result – but that flies directly in the face of what following is intended to do into signal to the system, which is let you know when someone actually produces content.

So if Google actually said that PageRank, absent a search criterion, actually indicated quality or usefulness of a page in general, then it would literally and accurately be described as a Bag of Shit. It would be directly and completely wrong, because that is not only disconnected from the measure and the signal, but it's drawing an assumption and assessment which is unrelated to the actual intent of the signal where it occurs.

PageRank only makes sense in the context of a search.

UA is being positioned as a global, collectivist recognition of the value/interestingness/"goodness" of a given account. Based on a mixed set of signals for which there is no feedback, which is expensive to calculate, and which purports to be global.

I'm not saying it's a Bag of Shit, I'm saying that you have inadequately shown what it's actually good at, or what it actually indicates, and the way that the signals which you say are important to deriving the index are actually used don't connect with your interpretation of what they should mean.

Which is why I started this whole thing by asking how does this index differ from Rep or from a list of accounts ordered by decreasing amount of SP, either possibly filtered by "receive votes from known bid bots"?

That might show is something that it's useful at illustrating, but until we see and know what that is, until we see and know what influenced UA for a given account, why it's high or low for any particular example, it's just a made up number without any particular meaning hung off of every account giving people one more thing to pay for – and don't think that I haven't noticed that one can actually pay to increase their UA by designating SP to the UA bot in exchange for votes from that bot, and votes from authoritative sources, in theory, are one of the things that go into calculating one's UA.

I notice these things. It comes from observing a lot of games.

PageRank used an intentional action and signal to help contextualize and rank the results of the search which were inherently related to, in some sense, the intent of the user as expressed to the system in the first place.

UA has no such contextualization, there are questions about the signal that it uses to determine that rank, and it essentially ends up being a metric hanging in space with no justification which leads to no reasonable use.

You can either slide us some information which would allow us to examine and investigate what the signal that you are generating correlates with, if anything, or you can dodge that. If you wanted to remain a magic, mysterious number that somehow is vaguely, mysteriously correlated with some sense of "goodness," and go right ahead. But don't expect respect for it.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

goodness

Wrong, UA reflects influence

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Btw, don't keep stating UA is a "black box", it isn't, I've already Open Sourced the base algo, we'll Open Source the UA repo as well, but can I at least decide myself when I think the code is bug free / documented well-enough and meeting my (our) own quality standards, ready for publication?

Your level of assumptions is staggering.

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flugschwein (60) · 6 years ago

That's pretty much exactly what happened to me :P
I unfollowed many accounts now that UA is live

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

I did so 3 weeks ago already! But of course I knew what we were developing! ;-)

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

That can have the unintended consequence of people isolating each other in fear of passing the UA juice.

Just saying...!!

are you taking into account - average number of votes received for each post , how soon someone replies to their comment , uniqueness and length of comments made/received , unique average posts made each day ?

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julisavio (69) · 6 years ago

Good morning, I'll ask here, because I'm not so proficient in the English language to understand the text. For example, I want to delegate 100 sp to you. By doing this, I get up to 4 upvotes per week. That's right?? Is it just delegating and I'm starting to participate?

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Correct!

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edymunawar (9) · 6 years ago (edited)

This is amazing. Hopefully, @stee-ua will grow in the future.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

we hope so too! It's @steem-ua btw ;-)

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themanwithnoname (64) · 6 years ago

That sounds really cool! Is https://steem-ua.com/ the only place that we can check our scores? If so, is there a way to do so without using steemconnect? i.e. just a lookup feature?

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

As more and more UA Registered Partners will integrate UA data via our UA-API, more places will be available to read UA data from (in various forms presumably, depending on what those services will use UA data for).

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themanwithnoname (64) · 6 years ago

Right on. Well as soon as you have a place for me to look mine up, I'd be interested to check. I'll even write a post on it to help you get more exposure. I don't have a huge following, but it's a start.

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kenny-crane (68) · 6 years ago

Your ua score is 5.119 and you have a ua rank of 853

I'm not in the top 100 but I am in the top 1000 and I'm grateful and proud to have achieved this!

I think this is a good and helpful addition to the steem ecosystem. Thanks for creating this new reputation system! 👍

Posted using Partiko Android

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heretickitten (64) · 6 years ago

This sounds like a pretty interesting way of ensuring that decent authors get what they deserve. Although I wonder what I deserve. I write poetry, short stories, and philosophical essays, so hopefully I have enough rightful followers to get me noticed.

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

What you are doing is really valuable but the presentation is very dry..can you make it little bit juicy?

it be very dry bro

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

With all the "UA Juice" flowing from account to account, being DRY (a coding term used for Don't Repeat Yourselfas a good coding practise) needs to be taken into account as well! ;-)

itstime (60) · 6 years ago

Just a dab homie...!!

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asaha (47) · 6 years ago

Wow...am awed...
This is amazing...
It's gonna be great though...

Well-done

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Yes, UA is pretty amazing! :-)

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marvindean (42) · 6 years ago

Count me in I always down to upvote and resteem

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https://steemit.com/@laptopy2005

laptopy2005 (52) · 6 years ago

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jpphotography (70) · 6 years ago

That's a promising approach and certainly better than the corrupt reputation score. Delegated and will watch where this goes!

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Thanks for participating to @steem-ua ! :-)

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for91days (71) · 6 years ago

I run with other @travelfeed would that count to increase our UA?

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Yes, your content eligible for @steem-ua can be about anything, provided it's of decent quality!

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lalitkumarprasad (42) · 6 years ago

@steem-ua
I shall say its a great, new and welcome change you people are trying to bring onto the steemit platform.What I understand is that this new system of assessing a creators reputation would be based primarily on the content which he has created and there will be very little influence on this reputation of his own upvotes. Great thinking,It shall enhance the quality of content that will be posted on the platform as people will decide the popularity of the post and not the promotions . This method of assessing the reputation of any creator will definitely benefit the steemit and the creators too,Especially the ones who do not have the money power.
Welcome change i'll say.

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sheikhshahin (44) · 6 years ago

Great comment. I like it.

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sheikhshahin (44) · 6 years ago

Really great writing and I consider it an especial one. I want to read more from this writer. Very deep thinking.

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bahruel (35) · 6 years ago

Nice article,,good luck

Posted using Partiko Android

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intrepidphotos (75) · 6 years ago

Just comes up with

a white screen with
"Nothing to see..."

when I try and look at my score??

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intrepidphotos (75) · 6 years ago

It is working now; please ignore comment.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Okidoki! ;-)

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rufusfirefly (61) · 6 years ago

I just tried to look up my UA and got this error:

"This site can’t be reached
steem-ua.com refused to connect."

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Maybe your own internet connection wasn't functioning properly? Or SC had a connection time-out? Just try again via https://steem-ua.com/ !

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rufusfirefly (61) · 6 years ago

I tried again after seeing your post and was successful. I just tried again and got the same error. It's something sporadic on one end.

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joythewanderer (78) · 6 years ago

Congrats, this post is featured on my news show (in Chinese :D) for today!

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Great! I don't think I will be able to understand what's been said in Chinese, but enjoy the show! :-)

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joythewanderer (78) · 6 years ago

:) thanks for reply. Sorry it was in Chinese lol

Posted using Partiko iOS

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

I love Chinese actually! I don't understand it (yet!) but love it nonetheless! ;-)

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joythewanderer (78) · 6 years ago

Hahaha, cool! I’m still figuring out how UA is calculated.

Posted using Partiko iOS

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kantos (62) · 6 years ago

Oh amigos hacen un trabajo genial, felicidades por eso, estaré pendiente para unirme al @steem-ua
Gracias por compartir esta información.
Saludos desde Venezuela

Oh my friends are doing a great job, congratulations for that, I will be looking forward to joining @steem-ua
Thanks for sharing this information.
Greetings from Venezuela

Again...

THANK YOU!

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sebbbl (63) · 6 years ago (edited)

Hi @holger80 and @scipio,
Very nice job (except your website cannot be reached when trying to connect via steemconnect).

Question : does the language of the posts matter ? (If I understood well, I'd say no, but I prefer to be sure).

Looking forward and may delegate up to 200SP...

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Nope, all languages are supported! (Although you probably reach more users thus more manual votes being computed in your UA_Post score if you post in English, but in essence - the language doesn't matter.)

Looking forward to having you on-board as a @steem-ua SP delegator!

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doomsdaychassis (63) · 6 years ago

!pancakes

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pancakes (57) · 6 years ago

Thanks for contacting Pancakes Express!

Would you like to order pancakes?

Please upvote this comment with your order:

Upvote	Order
$0.01+	random delicious pancake
$0.05+	excellent pancakes suited for a king or queen
$0.25+	party pancakes
$1+	best pancakes we have ever made
$?	it's ninja!

If you would like to order your own pancakes, just make a comment !pancakes anywhere on the blockchain and we will send you a menu.

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sivajigade (25) · 6 years ago

Great
https://steemit.com/@sivajigade

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Great indeed huh! ;-)

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bigotemaifriend (56) · 6 years ago

:) great, i'll keep an eye on this then heheh

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servitel2013 (25) · 6 years ago

Siempre es interesante mejorar los parámetros de valoración referidos a la reputación, es una herramienta importante y nos ayuda a mejorar y hacer de nuestros artículos, vídeos y demás publicaciones mas llamativos.

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whatsup (75) · 6 years ago

How do we see this new rep?

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flugschwein (60) · 6 years ago (edited)

Currently, due to UA being in such an early state of development, access to that new rep is somewhat restricted. You can look at your own UserAuthority right here (requires you to log in with steemconnect for verification). You can also look at the top 100 UA accounts on the project website.
For developers of dApps or similar stuff, there also is a API you can use with a private key. These restrictions are due to the very heavy number crunching required for calculating UA. They will probably get removed with time, as the algorithm gets optimized etc

jacekw.dev (58) · 6 years ago

Could you tell what is the UA score of some popular bid-bots? Just out of curiosity :)

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ahsanyaseen (25) · 6 years ago

we guys really need to have a better grasp.
Support the new steemians brother keep updated keep motivated.
Thanks to @steem-ua

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Sure thing!

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crypto.talk (58) · 6 years ago (edited)

I was curious about whether this can easily abused. It looks like "follow" is the main thing that the ua-score looks at?

Posted using Partiko Android

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zoef (64) · 6 years ago

It goes alot deeper than following. I advice you to go read https://steemit.com/utopian-io/@scipio/how-to-solve-spam-on-steem-introducing-userauthority

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dolov (65) · 6 years ago

Ok. I delegation 100 SP :)

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Great! And welcome to @steem-ua !

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oneazania (56) · 6 years ago

Who would have thought? A circle jerk reputation score. Amazing.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

You might want to read before you write

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oneazania (56) · 6 years ago

What an arrogant comment to make.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

The @steem-ua Algorithmic Curation has nothing to with "circle jerking", neither has the UA influence metric.

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katamori (50) · 6 years ago

The thing is that in this ranking, not the fact of circlejerk itself is the value. If your bot accounts jerk to each other, it's worthless. If good content creators do that, it indicates something.

Something good, actually.

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oneazania (56) · 6 years ago (edited)

You need to realise that people who have high SP value, choose on their own - what 'good content' means. It may be their own content, or one of their friends - or someone who's positions, campaign, project or whatever it may be, that they agree with. This is no different from you or I, with less SP making the same subjective based decision. The only difference being the amount of money behind the vote. Paying someone to vote for our content, or investing in SP. It is identical. Whoever wants to promote content, let him do it.

good vs Bad content is a subjective thing. Value, is objective. What amount of money are you willing to support that content with? This is an objective thing that can be measured by SP or bid for a vote, ultimately - vote value. The argument one should wait for some or other ordained list of accounts to support your content with a vote, just doesn't make any sense at all. This assumes the larger accounts have some monopoly on the ability to decide what good content is.

The argument that the number of followers and interaction is not the same as looking at an accounts SP is disingenuous. We all know that SP breeds following.

It will eventually amount to what is 'Permissible' content - if you are not on their list, expect someone to send a BOT to your account with a word like 'bad steemian'..

Notice the arrogance displayed when an opposing view is expressed in this thread and elsewhere on the platform. This is a form of circle jerking - a circle of people that support one another, and the masses serve as a PR stunt with a badge: 'good content', 'quality curation'. Nothing is further from the truth.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

UA doesn't even look at the SP an account owns. Before forming your opinion on UA, it might be an idea - again - to read what I wrote. There are many aspects regarding UA that might not be covered in our intro post; I deliberately didn't want to make it too lengthy or add even more tech/math stuff that might confuse people. But asking questions about what's not clear to you, which I would be happy to answer, I would appreciate far more than dropping one liners like A circle jerk reputation score. Amazing.

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katamori (50) · 6 years ago

You were not wrong, I admit, but thinking about it, projects like this are well aligned with my intention when it comes to way of curation and promotion.

The problem is that the current way it's happenning doesn't seem to be fulfilling. It leads to empty and shallow conversations as well as thinning the line between credible and untrustworthy characters.

UA helps by starting processes I personally want to see.

Also @scipio is hardly a whale.

Posted using Partiko Android

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oneazania (56) · 6 years ago (edited)

No system is perfect, but one should be weary when attempts are made to tilt advantage to selected accounts. I believe the culprits are not small accounts, nor the bidbots but larger companies which encourage upvoting of their own posts with the promise of some kickbacks. Smaller accounts are so desperate, they go along with this, adding to what you correctly mention is empty and shallow conversations (or no conversations at all). One only needs to go to a random post by curator (spelled with another letter of the alphabet) to see this situation in action. My own posts are the same - close to 1,000 votes, with shallow conversations - but I pay a high cost from my own pocket to achieve that. And it has nothing to do with the nature of the content (to avoid the word 'standard'). I convert my fiat to sp with every post. This is to achieve visibility and to eventually hold SP - but my main objective is simply to contribute to my own blog with my OWN content. The reason others do it is to achieve 'whale status' or move up the witness ranks, using OTHER PEOPLE'S content. They do it under the guise of promoting the other users' visibility, but it doesn't work that way in practice - people are simply upvoting and not reading the posts because the system is setup that way - just upvote and get on with your day - it is shallow. This metric called UA appears to me to be highly suspicious tinkering. And one simply needs to see who is supportive of it, to know who it will eventually benefit. I am not sure it will benefit a broader range of accounts or encourage better content, just the content favored by a few 'whales'. I do not know the standing of the person you mentioned, save to say he or she made an arrogant comment replying to my sarcasm. Whatever hje or she wants to achieve is not for the newcomer to steemit (in my opinion) but it is to favor whale accounts. This is a very intricate effort to curry favor from such accounts. That is my view and I believe I am entitled to hold this view or be convinced otherwise. A reply which says 'read before commenting', simply shows me that my assumptions were correct.

Thanks for your respectful reply. I haven't said much about this in the many months of observing this, quite simply because the people backing it are extremely aggressive and arrogant, and I expected reprisals from my expressing of a view which is not favorable to them.

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katamori (50) · 6 years ago

Hm, I can agree on one term: there are people for who, UA is an extra reinforcement. But this isn't general at all. E.g. haejin seems to have relatively low UA despire his high REP and other metrics that'd rise him to the top.

Self-voting is cancer, I agree, I can't understand how it's not eradicated yet. I'm on the brink of being afraid to spread the word about Steem because of it. Any skeptic would laugh at my face for this.

Human nature is very hard to "fix" and several experiments on that matter have failed spectacularly, hence my focus on content quality. Shallow people stay shallow, you can't do a thing about that - tilting, as you said, towards proactive and engaging people, however, is beneficial.

These, in my view, can all be improved by UA - not that it's a miraculous metric, but a pretty damn good one, considering it's based on an idea that has made Google what it is today. When it comes to supporters: it looks fine by me. I contant them on Discord regularly, they are more on the "good end" of the spectrum, if I can tell such a thing.

Scipio was arrogant, I admit, but truth be told, I was a bit close to that, too. No offense, but your first comment seemed like mindless shitting. Fortunately, respect for me is a default, so often I prefer making a note on inappropriate comments, and keep respect as long as I get the same. Which is the thing right now, fortunately.

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oneazania (56) · 6 years ago (edited)

It is not anyone's job to fix human nature, certainly not in a platform like this. It is more feasible to aim for an environment where the arrogant bullies are not allowed more and more power - this implies safeguards being place there to limit such anti-social actions. By arrogant bullies, I suggest those who abuse the flag to punish people for actions unrelated to a particular post, those who remain grumpy all day long (and are favored by the same people) who who keep blacklists, and the so-called curators who merely select content which they and their friends agree with. These actions are all familiar (yes, a lot like Google, Facebook, and so on, you are right). These parties all claim to operate on some rational basis, but only the naive accept that a nudge and a wink and secret handshakes are rational in any way shape or form. They are only rationale and objective on the surface. In such an environment, the worst in our nature will certainly rise as a reaction to their bullying. The best we can do is stop supporting bullies, and instead speak out against them and try to limit their power over others by all means at our disposal. This metric aims to remove a lot of the possibilities now open to us. No doubt, when this gains traction, we will work out more ways and they will respond again.

I am a simple person who observes things.

On the haejin issue, she almost never interacts with her horde following (they seldom deserve any attention, imo), so I am not surprised about her scoring low on a metric which thinly pretends to measure interaction. I am sure if she started jerking some of the people behind this project, her score will rise very quickly.Most people are not intellectual whores. All of her weaknesses taken into account, she may be supported by some giants, but she doesn't pander to anyone. That I have always admired about her (more than her posts).

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katamori (50) · 6 years ago

Arrogant people assume everyone else knows fukkall about anything, compared with themselves.

That isn't arrogance on its own, but a good indicator.

It is not anyone's job to fix human nature, certainly not in a platform like this.

Well, even if not fixing nature, what I can see on Steem is a huge experiment going onwards on fixing governance issues about the basic idea behind it. My impression is that many, many crypto/blockchain is flawed because of the way decisions are made. Of course it includes Steem, but because of its very nature, new solutions are tried and implemented all the time. This place is one of a kind.

All the issues you list are in a way or another, the symptoms of what I'm talking about. But, once more, UA is not a symptom on its own.

Reading onwars, I don't think I can convince you, and no offense but the more accusations you do ("a metric which thinly pretends to measure interaction"? Really?) the less I feel like want to.

I just only suggest for you to have a more optimistic attitude. Not an obligation, but would help to make you feel better.

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steemitboard (66) · 6 years ago

Congratulations @steem-ua! You have completed the following achievement on Steemit and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

Award for the number of upvotes

_{Click on the badge to view your Board of Honor.}
_{If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP}

Do you like SteemitBoard's project? Then Vote for its witness and get one more award!

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steemitboard (66) · 6 years ago

Congratulations @steem-ua! You have completed the following achievement on Steemit and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

You published your First Post
Award for the number of upvotes received

_{Click on the badge to view your Board of Honor.}
_{If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP}

Do you like SteemitBoard's project? Then Vote for its witness and get one more award!

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Yes, and we spent quite some time on publishing that First Post as well! ;-)

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marillaanne (55) · 6 years ago

With @steem-ua we want to encourage all Steem Authors to write High-Quality Content about their expertise, which could be about any topic.

So if a person only knows how to post pretty art pieces they produce and they only write about life events then what? Are they just doomed to be the low ranking on your totem pole?

Yes. I'm still mostly out, sickly. But, yes, I still have time to harass you. But I'm also dead away serious. I think the engineer, software-dev types are missing out on something hugely important about the humans. What say you?

Also with this nice fancy dancey upvote system of yours ... basically, it's still all about buying votes because not only does your little bot upvote a post it doesn't pass up the opportunity to advertise itself in comments. Not only does this increase the post's ua, this is quite a tidy little deal for you. Tell me how wrong I am now and how I will remain wrong in the future. Please. Explain how there's not a circular benefit cycle to yourselves.

I still don't support this project based on it's criteria choice which encourage cliques AND, Now, you've lost my sympathy. Unless, of course, you can come along and explain to me (that pesky geek-artist who follows the human condition as written in small but revealing posts) just exactly how wrong I am.

I paused here thinking well, "I've not read the comments. There might be something I should notice." All I've noticed is that ya'll seem to have a twisted sense of humor and think that we shouldn't notice the circular benefit pattern and can't understand the least bit the bias you've put in play. So unless I missed something, there's no need for you to reply.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

So if a person only knows how to post pretty art pieces they produce and they only write about life events then what? Are they just doomed to be the low ranking on your totem pole?

Ehm, no? We curate based on -a- the UA_Author value and -b- the UA_Post value, which incorporates all other votes on that post, not by its SP but UA score.

"Content" can be anything. And exactly because good curators can very well have a high-UA score themselves, if you post a really cool photograph, then sure that would be eligible for curation & an upvote.

So unless I missed something, there's no need for you to reply.

There was no need for you to respond here either! ;-) All voluntarily.

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marillaanne (55) · 6 years ago

So, due to your partial reply, I'm assuming the rest of my comment is correct.

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago (edited)

You're always entitled to have and share your own opinion @marillaanne, which is a different matter as assessing your opinion as "correct" or not. Of course I do not agree with your statement it's about "buying votes" or a "circular benefit cycle"; but you said yourself it's useless to try and convince you, so I don't even try - as you've advised yourself.

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marillaanne (55) · 6 years ago

I paused here thinking well, "I've not read the comments. There might be something I should notice." All I've noticed is that ya'll seem to have a twisted sense of humor and think that we shouldn't notice the circular benefit pattern and can't understand the least bit the bias you've put in play. So unless I missed something, there's no need for you to reply.

Let's be exact. That's what I said.

You may not agree with my statement. Fine.

In your eyes, I've obviously missed something.

To my eyes, the fact that you did not point out what I've missed PLUS you have taken on the extra task of misquoting me, says that you actually cannot show how this is not another "circular benefit cycle" and you remain unaware of the fact that you are introducing bias into a system that is suppose to be without bias.

I can draw a diagram of the circular benefit and the introduction of bias if that would help. Or, you can draw a diagram of how the cyclical benefit is introduced without also introducing bias.

Your pick.

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mbj (64) · 6 years ago

Do we need a special tag to get noticed of our quality contents after delegating to @steem-ua

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

We'll know you posted after delegating to @steem-ua, no need for tagging! ;-)

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mbj (64) · 6 years ago

Oh really?.. sounds cool then.

_{This comment was made from https://ulogs.org}

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Very cool huh! :-)

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patrickulrich (66) · 6 years ago

Thank you for taking the time to post this. You have received a Preemptive Strike from @patrickulrich, who is one of the simulcasters, on @thesteemingpile.

This post will be featured on our LIVE broadcast tonight at 9:30pm EST on @dlive! If you're available we'd love to have you join us to discuss your post by jumping on the Pile! Again, great work and we hope to see you tonight!

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conwell (15) · 6 years ago

Top hilarious spoiled kids

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quochuy (72) · 6 years ago

That's impressive work.
I'd like to integrate this to a project I'm working on. Will contact you soon.

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henroo84 (40) · 6 years ago

This article is quiet a volume! I will try it out by delegating 25SP when i can afford it. So that i can experience how it works first hand for myself.

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steemitboard (66) · 6 years ago

Congratulations @steem-ua! You have completed the following achievement on Steemit and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

Award for the total payout received
Award for the number of comments received

_{Click on the badge to view your Board of Honor.}
_{If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP}

Do you like SteemitBoard's project? Then Vote for its witness and get one more award!

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revisesociology (73) · 6 years ago

Intuitively this feels good. Lots of good constructive comments too!

It's like getting the old steemit back!

Posted using Partiko Android

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flaws (72) · 6 years ago

Hey @steem-ua, can I make a translation to Spanish of this post? This method of reputation is very interesting and I think this info can help the Spanish community as well

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scipio (65) · 6 years ago

Sure! Go ahead! :-)

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calatorulmiop (57) · 6 years ago (edited)

How do you determine if a post is of a high enough standard to deserve a vote? For example let's say I post a very well written and elaborate post on a niche subject and most people don't pay that much attention to it. But from an objective standpoint it is very well done. Does it still get an upvote?
Anyways awesome project and I will certainly keep an eye on it :)

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