My Proposals For The Next Utopian BIWEEKLY 01/05/2018 4PM CET

scipio (65) · 7 years ago (edited)

-1- Translations category: a translation contribution can only be approved after it was merged into the GitHub repository, just like is the case for "development" contributions.

-2- Design category: a design contribution can only be approved after it was merged into the GitHub repository, just like is the case for "development" contributions.

Explanation:
The volume of mostly translation contributions but also design contributions "eats" the Utopian rewards system, yet those contributions hardly ever actually get used / implemented by the Open Source Software repositories. This defeats the mission of Utopian: to stimulate and catalyze Open Source development via rewards for their -valid- contributors.

This proposal will probably not be popular among some translators and design contributors, but it will be popular among good translators and designers that try really hard and do their best, because those contributions will be accepted and used by the repository owners. And anyway: action is needed to save the Utopian mission.

$14.97

5 votes

littleboy (72) · 7 years ago

My suggestions:

For translations, only approve translations if they were merged, proofread or were upvoted/endorsed by project owners.
Your suggestion "[Tutorials] should only cover the technical aspects of the project" is very subjective and may lead to 90% of tutorials getting rejected. It is not clear what you mean by "technical aspect" and mods themselves may have their own interpretation of it. I suggest you drop this idea and try to find something that would be more specifically defined.
Same as 2 for video tutorials. Drop the technical aspect part.

$11.25

scipio (65) · 7 years ago (edited)

Different words, same thoughts: upvoted of course! :-)
The technicalities aren't important. Dealing with this (credits for @wehmoen for this) IS important! This is not what Utopian is intended for.

We need to solve this

$0.00

ulkembetil (63) · 7 years ago (edited)

I understand the whole purpose of these new regulations are aiming to increase quality content. However, I believe this will cause opposite effect. I believe, If we require twice as more work for half the prize, it will do nothing more than disencourage people

You can think this as classic boss and empoloyee relationship for usual business enviroment. Do you think employee's are tend to work harder and more efficiently If you make them work twice as long for half the salary?
For our case, let's consider a person who does translation, they might think that in order to get same amount of $upvote, now they have to work 4 times more because of the new regulations. This will either make them give up on the system or encourage them to do careless work. ( I am sure most of the people will try to do it faster to compensate their loss)

I still believe we should encourage quality content and eliminate low quality /careless posts, I just don't believe this is the way to do it. There was a reason why Utopian-io witness had it's name on the rise recently. I don't think we should take this away from its people.

and another example is that poor qualiyt content producers spend about 20-25 minutes on their translations by using automatic translating tools like google translate

but quality content producers spend about 1.5-2 hour per translation if you make this change

quality content producer will spend 3-4 hour for same work while poor quality translaters spending 40-50 minutes

Extra quality content producers will have to spend gradually more than poor quality content producers now

Such as;
Poor quality content user will only spend 20 minutes more on their post . However, quality content users will need to spend 2 hours extra for their posts.

@omersurer, @omeratagun

$7.53

readante (59) · 7 years ago (edited)

Hello All

I am from Turkey and currently I am doing my Chemical Engineering PhD in Montana State.

Since I do not have lots of spare time, I like to do 1 or 2 Turkish Translation per day. I like to make my time and utopian-io's vote worth so I spend some time on my translations, they usually takes 1.5 hour to 2 hour.

If you increase the threshold to 1000 words, I do not think I will have time for that. I cannot spend 4 hours on a translation and I do not want to translate in a rush just to get upvote.
I have 4 more friends with me here (are also in the Grad School with me), they are also doing 1-2 translations with me everyday

Also some of the strings has highly code structure, so to make everyone's effort worth, I translate around 600 words instead of 500.

I guess what I am trying to say is, I also believe it will cause you to lose some of the quality translators. I do not think I will have time to translate 1000-1200 words. I believe 500 words were just perfect amount for upvote / words.

You have something really good going here utopian, I hope it will not change !

$6.46

omeratagun (65) · 7 years ago (edited)

Thats what i am talking about. Solution is not the lowering down the ratio of upvote but more restricted rules with same amount of payments.

Instead of working onto elect the abuser, i would love to see there is a tons of higher quality contribution gets the proper amount of work. I suggest my proposal here in this comments. Im so excited to see what community will say. Best wishes!

$0.40

oldbutgold (55) · 7 years ago

so good examples thank you very much :)

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secondsteem (41) · 7 years ago

you all right

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carguy-tr (39) · 7 years ago

You are %100 true!

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nesibe.yildiz (48) · 7 years ago

%100 true!

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octobre (59) · 7 years ago (edited)

I personally agree with your standpoint, and want to add;
There are so many changes on the the rules as i figured out that the most significant changes are about contributors. Due to my understanding from utopian page, most of contributions are made under the ''translation'' title. Which means creating value via utopian.io is mostly related to contributions on translation. Here is only one chart on Dec and there are many more.
Pie Chart

No need to expant the example with chart...

As a contributor in translation section, i don't produce a content like a production machine. i do give a sufficient time around 120-150 mins, translate over thn 500 words and doing my best for a quality content...

Now we will face with fourfold-force for same amount of value.

Not everyone have time to double for a work. In my opinion if the aim is to increase the quality of contents, trying to take a longer time for a half price sounds demoralizing.

And it could be discouraging for many others.

Any way, with the name of Utopia, the project itself has a tremendous approuch to the Value Sharing.
But if there is a change about 200% on structure of a work/value sharing , it could be brutal for some quality content producer.

$0.00

dutch (61) · 7 years ago (edited)

These changes are great, and the fact that they are centered on quality control makes it clear your platform is growing rapidly - congrats!

A Moderator will be banned if inactive for more than one week.

Perhaps this could be reduced to 'removed from their position'? There are many reasons a mod may disappear, and a ban seems harsh. Just my opinion.

Thank you for having me on the team - I will continue to uphold the ideals of Utopian, and hope you manage to generate enough funds to tear down SNIA Viscosa.

$4.92

6 votes

elear (67) · 7 years ago (edited)

Thanks and updated! :)

$0.03

omeratagun (65) · 7 years ago (edited)

Proposal for translation category

Minimum amount of words has to raise up to 600 words.

Limit of translations per day should be 4. Can be discussed per language or per user( in some cases users knows more than 3 languages.

We should ask for proof from the new users, who started to contribute utopian ( 25 reputation and around ). A letter which includes username of utopian and a proof of knowledge about the language they contribute ( via discord with discord managers).

Copy/paste google translations, should have been a reason of permanent ban from translations category.

Per language we should have at least 2 members to create proof reader council in order be fair!

In case if translations includes codes, links, paths, we may pend the post and ask for more.

We have to create whitelist from the users which is trustable for translations.

Ratio of upvote for translator should have stay the same if these rules are in progress.

Personal opinion; Giving a lower ratio is not a solution, its just a MORE queue for the feed. People will start contribute more than before to get the same amount and we will have issue more than a before. I believe, making the rules restricted and the criteria of standards harder than before is the key of having a quality contributions. These are my suggestions and i hope they will be on biweekly to discuss with all. Thanks for reading.

$3.57

6 votes

ruah (67) · 7 years ago

Proposal for New Contributors

New contributors should write a short introduction about him/herself

Should cite how did he know about utopian e.g from advertisement, refer by a friend, saw in steemit, saw in reddit etc..

Contributors should have a discord account to communicate inside the the discord channel, this way we could easily contact that contributors vise versa.

$2.70

5 votes

julienbh (59) · 7 years ago (edited)

Yes maybe a small registration procedure would help clear out the spam beforehands! Also a I am human box upon submission?

$0.00

princewahaj (69) · 7 years ago (edited)

Great post @elear. It is awesome that you are working actively on quality control. Here are my suggestions for this bi-weekly update:

Proposals For Contributors

The number of contributions per day should be restricted. Allow the maximum of 3 contributions per day.
Multiple accounts should have a lifetime ban on Utopian bot system.
The user must have the rep above 50 in order to contribute through Utopian.

Translations Category

Keep the minimum words to 500. It takes solid amount of time already.
The moderation should be strict. The transaction must be concise, accurate and mean the same as original.
Work should be divided according to the languages spoken by Moderators.
If used Google translate, he will be blacklisted and couldn't work again for at-least one year. (Not lifetime, everyone deserves the second chance)

Quality Assurance In Translations Category

If the introduction given in the translation post contains a lot of grammatical errors, it should be rejected. Because if the person can't speak English well, then how he can you expect good translation from him?

Self upvoted just for visibility.

$2.55

iqbaladan (65) · 7 years ago

The user must have the rep above 50 in order to contribute through Utopian.

Reputation does not guarantee someone is really capable and qualified (ie: transaltion), sometimes newcomers on this platfrom have abilities above average, they are just new to steemit and utopian.

Keep the minimum words to 500. It takes solid amount of time already.

I agree with this point. Translating 500 words is really time consuming except using google translate.

The last thing that I 100% agree with is this point;

If the introduction given in the translation post contains a lot of grammatical errors, it should be rejected. Because if the person can't speak English well, then how he can you expect good translation from him?

$0.00

favcau (68) · 7 years ago

Proposal for Suggestions Category

Suggestion category need to have a strict format and style. The content need to be divided by titles like Intro/Problem/Suggestion.

$2.28

mcfarhat (70) · 7 years ago

Thanks elear.
I'd like this prior feature request (moderation menu) to be discussed due to its importance in the whole moderation process.
https://utopian.io/utopian-io/@mcfarhat/suggested-feature-utopian-moderation-menu

$2.28

drigweeu (60) · 7 years ago

Great work you are doing @elear.
I will go direct to point.
I propose for a cap in contributions.
Posible maximum of 5 contributions per day.

$2.25

plokmi (60) · 7 years ago

Proposal for translation category

Bad or incorrect translations as well as plagiarism will be warned.
Repeated offence (e.g. more than 3 times) will result in a ban on utopian platform.

Recruit native language speakers (not moderators).

Native language speakers will have lesser rewards in comparison to moderators.

Proposing consensus system, e.g.: moderator will tag the "native language speakers" to the post, where they will have to review for the usage of language, use "upvote" or "downvote" to decide the correctness of the language. Moderator will then decide the quality value of the post, based on other aspects, e.g. word counts and so on.

These are my suggestions, thank you.

$2.06

oups (63) · 7 years ago

I want to thank you personally, that I thought that you and other supervisors didn't even see the problems people suffering. Since there is no active discussions about these on discord (or I'm missing all of them) I thought you had no idea. So I'm also sorry about thinking that way.

As propositions I'll hopefully add some but I see many mods complaining already with a greedy attitude, seems like forgetting the purpose. So still it's not my business but I would suggest that,

Every mod should re-considered and expected to be at least some years of experience/contributions in open source platforms.

Even the translator team, I saw many conversation that says "Everyone in utopian can translate", "So it's the most abused section" etc. Likewise everyone can proofread a text, a person with the love of open source can do that too..

Whoever gets into this for money make this platform even greedy, open source doesn't need that in my personal view.

I was planned to make a post about that but I already started so,

Graphics contributions should get voted by a group of proven designers for quality standards.

Like in #I-am-on-it channel in discord a private channel can created for these designers and when a mod review a post with other aspects. This designers could up/down vote the content just for quality aspect.

Design and art can not be qualified with one person's view. So a collaborative idea about if that design works or not will be more trustful.

I specifically inspect one of the graphics section mod's works which are great in my opinion, but not great as he started and in his defence, he states that utopian doesn't have a quality bar, so why he should put more effort than others?. seems logical.

Last but not least, I saw one proposition that suggests moderation applicants should have 90 days old account, who's oldest post was 18 days old :) So how should I trust his judgements..

I don't know how it could be applied but moderators shouldn't be chosen from up, I mean supervisors or else.

$1.92

elear (67) · 7 years ago

Thanks for your suggestions!

$0.00

kiaazad (59) · 7 years ago

my proposals are:

Graphic contributions should be an improvement over the existing graphic if available.
use of templates is prohibited, the contribution must be direct result of your own work.
You need to provide a link or credit to all assets you have used in your contribution and make sure you have permission to use them for commercial use. including: images, videos, fonts, 3D models, etc...
you should not copy or trace other peoples work and claim it as your own, breaking this rule can result in being banned from utopian.io
users whom identify and report abuse will be rewarded, the reporting and rewarding will be in private to protect users.
Only contributions with proof of acceptance from the project owners are accepted, be it as a merged request, comment, forum answer or other forms that can prove their work is accepted.
users should obtain proof of acceptance before constructing their contribution report
utopian only rewards "reports of contributions", the contributions should be presented directly to the project and then reported to utopian not the other way around
multiple accounts are allowed if the categories they contribute to, do not overlap, for example if a user have a main account for development topic and one limited to video tutorials.
this rule allows the users to keep their separate blogs clean with the condition that they report their multiple accounts to be white listed

$0.84

4 votes

oups (63) · 7 years ago

Not that I am against any of them, I just have opinions on these if you allow.

you should not copy or trace other peoples work and claim it as your own, breaking this rule can result in being banned from utopian.io

Can be easily manipulated by hiding a layer when taking screenshots. Not effective enough in my opinion.

utopian only rewards "reports of contributions", the contributions should be presented directly to the project and then reported to utopian not the other way around

This one have pros and cons, it will help utopian heard by the open source community. For me utopian should not go out with current design quality, if people really believe in their designs and the projects they contribute are starter/smaller projects, they already making issues or pull requests. Think all the rejected posts will be in GitHub pages with "Hey we're from Utopian, we are friendly" texts. :)

Other than that, if I have unlimited vote on biweekly, you got most of them.

$0.25

kiaazad (59) · 7 years ago

about the first one: that's why utopian mods should have a trained eye and spot stolen work when presented, there's always someone who tries to cheat, I think one attempt and permanent ban should weed them out.

I agree that the second one should explained thoroughly, I don't think that users should mention utopian when they contribute to a project, they should contribute like anybody else, when they got positive result, they can think about reporting to utopian, the goal is relieving the utopian moderators from: having to check if a contribution is useful or not so they can focus on eliminating abuse.

$0.37

oups (63) · 7 years ago

Lol I have a maserati-ish tattoo, I thought I was being creative, I went to a tattoo shop (while I was drunk), drew a devil's fork & crown combined to a paper, damn I'm still wearing sleeves. :) Need to cover it up while I'm sober.
There are situations our sub-conscious works for us, but I get your point for sure. I saw some processes where things keep appearing from nowhere. With 5-10 minutes of search easily leads you to source.

$0.00

samhamou (65) · 7 years ago (edited)

decreasing the amount of rewards in the translation category will hurt the users who give high quality translation and only post 2 to 3 time a week ,

As a moderator i know there is a lot of abuse in the translation category , but we can't solve that problem by hurting the good users ,

we need more moderators and we need to give them more power , mods don't need to fear or think more than once when they reject/hide a post ,

if Contributors used machine translation more than once they should get banned forever

Utopian should be private , no one can post there until his account get approved by a supervisor or maybe a mod

$0.46

rufans (68) · 7 years ago

Hi , so I was thinking of making a post about a bug for an open source project.
Before Doing that , I checked GitHub "issues" and I noticed the same bug has been reported long time ago but the issue wasn't solved even when the project has latest update.

Maybe it skipped the project owner's mind ?

Can that type of contribution be accepted ? 😋

$0.19

siersod (60) · 7 years ago (edited)

Translations Category
Increase the minimum amount of translated words from 500 to 1000, unless the entire project has less than 1000 words in total.

trying to improve that rule, I think it could be

1000 words minimum
it can be less than 1000 if the project has less than 1000 words,
can be less than 1000 but more than 500 if it is the last tranche to be translated from the project

Time for changing a post after a Moderator requested for changes will be lowered down from 48 hours to 12 hours. Every contribution not having the required changes within 12 hours will be rejected.

I think that 12 hours is a short time, we do not know if with the time change between the contributors and the moderator, the 12 hours pass between the user sleep and take breakfast ... 24 hours would be more appropriate

$0.05

elear (67) · 7 years ago

Updated from 12 to 24. I agree makes more sense.

$0.03

onos (61) · 7 years ago

What I will say is on the rejection of post due to previous contributions

some post are rejected due to similar contribution made, but most times when we check the previous contribution made, we see low upvote with reason of the contribution was not explained in details.
We should be able to allow updates to previous contributions made which are not clear for users who will need it, a specific aspect of this is tutorials. Some tutorials which were accepted before utopian updated rules can be updated with new detailed tutorials that will help any user that needs tutorial on that specific project.

$0.03

eklmv (48) · 7 years ago

About rewards for translations:
Maybe we can give more power to mods? Lets choose some sort of base reward. Like 1000 words - usual bot upvote. Mod checking out translation if it's valid work he specify reward coefficient.
For example 500 words, mod specify in comment that work will be rewarded with 0.5 coefficient and bot will upvote with half of his usual power.
700 words - 0.7
1000 words - 1.0
2000 words - 2.0, etc.
Also there can be added some additional rules which can affect rewards coefficient.

$0.02

jestemkioskiem (66) · 7 years ago

This is something we'll be trying to implement once we update the website. Thanks for your idea none the less!

$0.02

theinnocent (74) · 7 years ago

this is a great idea, i was going to put a comment like this.... and also if possible for every category, the bot should be programmed in a way that when the bot votes it should increase the power as it votes more post. for example a contribution received the first vote of the bot and the contributor got a vote worth of 20$, now there are so many contributions a day, so the last post which is also in the same category and somehow better than the first post received the same powered vote, but because of less voting power now the contributor will receive lets say 15$, that doesn't seem fair. but adding a voting slider for the moderators so they can mark the contribution, how good it is, can be very effective....

$0.00

phgnomo (64) · 7 years ago (edited)

Now my suggestions about translations, since this is where i contribute:

1000 Words seems good to me, since its not hard for a good Translator to reach 3k-4k words translated, but since the original idea of 500 words was to match the professional Translator pay, the bot vote should be increased at the same proportion. But... Since most of contributors arent professional translators, the rewards should take that in factor.
Since translations are mainly done through crowdin we should have a standard report for all translation posts, defining exactly what the post must have. (I am trying to make my own standard. Check my latest contribution, to see if looks good). A standard translation report for everyone would help the moderators to Focus on the quality of the translation, and make their work a bit faster.

EDIT: typing on a different language of your phone autocorrection sucks. Fixed some words.

$0.00

jestemkioskiem (66) · 7 years ago (edited)

Moderator process suggestions

An utopian button that will flag an user as a potential abuser. If the user has such tag tied to him, any moderator reviewing their post will see that and will be asked to take caution when reviewing their posts (with comments if necessary).

A small change for handling multiple accounts:

I've dealt with this 2 out of 2 times already - users don't know they should reply to this message because it doesn't say so, which means their contributions are not getting accepted even if they follow the rules

When responding to an user with the following message:
message
Add the following line on top of it to avoid confusion:

Your contribution cannot be approved yet. Contact us on Discord for further details.

$0.00

aemkar (51) · 7 years ago

Well I heard about the proposals. best wishes sir

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oups (63) · 7 years ago

A chilling/casual discord channel to speak random stuff.

Review channels on discord should only used when users done with what mod asked or Review channels on discord should only used for review discussions.

Reviews should be done First In First Out.

Details

$0.00

salimcanm (51) · 7 years ago

hello to everyone. I wanted to tell you my opinion as a member of your family.
My idea is that 1 account has 1 or 2 translations per day. If we have strict rules for translation, we can not reach our real goal.
The quality of translations will decrease. Those who really do this work will be harmful from this work.
Spams will continue in the same way, suffering only time loss. We can prevent spam by putting limitationon the number of posts.
So they will have to open a new account and they will be easily understandable

$0.00

gvincentjosephm (59) · 7 years ago

Yeah they should think about it specially the Plagiarism thing.

$0.00

drmake (55) · 7 years ago

What about a maximum of contributions per user per category in a specific timeframe, e.g., one day or 1 week? I know spammer will then probably create multiple accounts, but with the moderation, they have a higher risk of being identified.

$0.00

joe28 (57) · 7 years ago

Every contributors should appear their capabilities in these projects, I think this a step to keep up the project on top level. I am interesting to be one of member in this community.

$0.00

phgnomo (64) · 7 years ago

Shouldnt the contributor/mods/supervisors being banned/steping back have an 'appeal court' resource to present their case (maybe @elear himself, or an advisor board)?

Like, the ban/Step back should take effect immediatly, but they should be allowed to present his case to an 'supreme court' If they think It was an unjust decision....

$0.00

jedigeiss (72) · 7 years ago

great update elear, iam fully with you on that rule changes !

$0.00

hui.zhao (56) · 7 years ago

hi~ @elear..
Your suggestion is good, but I have two questions I did not understand for the advice of the Contributor section.

I do not quite understand these two suggestions, can you help me explain？

Trying to milk the Utopian Bot.
Using multiple accounts to abuse the system.

Thanks~

$0.00

berkayefe (42) · 7 years ago

Hello. I am new and planning to be a translator on utopian. I have a request. I don't know enough to pass an opinion on the suggestions. I would like to see people post their rationale for their suggestions, so we all can give our opinions on the matter. A format like "There is a problem like this...It can be solved doing that... We can reach it through setting up a rule like ...So this and that will happen..." could be helpful. Thanks.

$0.00

izge (51) · 7 years ago

Good luck with the utopian rules and the public hearing.

$0.00

jeito (48) · 7 years ago (edited)

Thanks @elear. I am new around here but i am doing my best to contribute this community really. I liked your proposals mostly. Also I agree with @deathwing about the trial period for the moderators this is nice idea. (I dont have any idea whether moderators got paid or not in this trial period. However there should be trial period in my opinion). And thanks for providing this platform. But i don't think about the 3 months old accounts etc. Because some people may have enough skillset to be moderator but he/she will still have to wait for 3 months. So i think this makes no sense for me because there is a person who want to contribute and if it will be useful for the community i think the time limit for 3 months could be high. Maybe @deathwing wanted this for a reason i dont know but he has more experiences since he is older here than me; i respected. I hope anyone won't misunderstand me. I will update if something comes in my mind.

EDIT: Also @Elear maybe transcripting an audio or making audio files for games or other opensource projects etc.

or how to categories like cooking category (e.g. written recipes or video recipes) can be future categories. Just came out on my mind; i know utopian is not mainly focused on cooking or something like that but i just want to give idea about growing up.

Thanks.

$0.00

rival (67) · 7 years ago

I agree on the tutorial part. This should only consists of technical details or how to setup options to experience the best performance.

Translations category -Users can only post only x translations per week.

$0.00

julienbh (59) · 7 years ago

How about a proof of commit for translations? Else who is really gonna use it? I can translate all the projects I want, but it nobody uses it, what's the point?
If and only if the project owner adds it to its codebase, now there is added value for both parties.
Same goes for graphic design...

$0.00

folken (59) · 7 years ago

I have a suggestion. I know it's too late, but maybe next time? :)
I think it would be a nice thing to create a "mediator" category of utopian users.
Completly neutral, their role would be to see if everything is going well and everyone is treated as equal.

I don't know if I am very clear, but I think you will get the point.

$0.00

mehedi118 (56) · 7 years ago

In steem I saw lots of talk about uropian-io.. But I don't have any idea about this.. Can anyone tell me about it... @elear please tell it mate..

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jeito (48) · 7 years ago

@mehedi118 hi friend; Utopian-io is basically a platform that rewards contributons and contributors on opensource projects. There is 12 main categories at utopian-io and for example translation is one of them. You can translate selected opensource projects and contribute community. Then utopian bot can vote you as a reward. I hope i explained well to you. Please dont hesitate to contact if you have questions.

Thanks.

$0.00

mehedi118 (56) · 7 years ago

You mean if I tag utopian and if I post within these 12 categories than utopian can vote me???

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elear (67) · 7 years ago

You need to post using the platform utopian.io and following the utopian.io/rules

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jeito (48) · 7 years ago

Yes, you need to follow the rules and post in utopian.io. And of course choose categories fits you.

$0.00