Clarification of my stance on vaccines, and why mandatory vaccination is definitely an issue pertinent to Anarcho-Capitalism/Voluntaryism. PLUS: OPEN INVITATION TO FORMAL DEBATE.

johleen (57) · 7 years ago (edited)

I am horrified by mandatory vaccinations. Specifically the 'mandatory' part.... I am pulled in two directions with my beliefs about vaccinations. I think there are some that have been fantastic for us humanoids. BUT, I think it's all gone a bit vaccine crazy now.

My children are vaccinated, but I can't help but wonder if that was the right choice. I personally turn down any of the optional vaccinations for our family such as the flu vaccination.

I really don't know enough about the subject and all the goings on behind the scenes when it comes to vaccinations... All I can do is hold my hands up and say, I really don't know, I don't know.

However, I 100% disagree with making them mandatory, purely on the basis of free will and choice for all - and not violating people's personal body and property rights.

Thanks for your post!

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6 votes

randowhale (67) · 7 years ago

This post received a 4.7% upvote from @randowhale thanks to @johleen! For more information, click here!

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sunshine247 (54) · 7 years ago

I am in CA and vaccinations are mandatory for our children in order to enter school unless you have a waiver - I am not vaccinated and am 50, my children are not vaccinated at 28 and 30 and my grandbabies are not vaccinated at 3 and 5. All of us are healthy never sick. Our granddaughter missed kindergarten because we were still working on the waiver - finally got a waiver and she will be heading to 1st grade this year. By the way, even with the waiver, the school gave us a hard time with registration - they finally signed off on it. Doesn't it make more sense that if you are vaccinated and you carry the live virus that you have a better chance of getting my unvaccinated child sick - you are a carrier. Look at the children these days, especially the little boys, the vaccinations are affecting them worse than the little girls - walking zombies and ADD and ADHD is now an epidemic - I say no to vaccinations and there is nothing that will change that. It is my understanding that CA is working on a new law that will require adults to be vaccinated and are considering putting on the employers to verify this - more policing in our lives..F U Jerry Brown, not happening with this family..Love you Steemit Friends..SUNSHINE247

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8 votes

deirdyweirdy (61) · 7 years ago

Well said. My own experience is much the same. Both myself and my brother are in our 50s, unvaccinated and apart from measles when we were young, we are never ill. Judging by policy in the rest of Europe, I wouldn't be surprised if it was made mandatory here in Ireland eventually. As for compulsory adult vaccines, that would send me running for the border as fast as my little legs woud carry me.

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sunshine247 (54) · 7 years ago

Well, if they every make it mandatory in order to work for an employer, they can go to hell..I am self employed and therefore would be waiving myself :) We will be teaching our children a trade and recommending they not go to college..everything you need to learn is right on the internet and they can teach themselves. Thats a whole other topic that someone should start..IS COLLEGE NECESSARY? Happy Saturday Steemit Friends..SUNSHINE247

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kafkanarchy84 (74) · 7 years ago

Thanks so much for sharing. I was wondering about the current situation in CA. God bless you and your family!

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sunshine247 (54) · 7 years ago

Thank you my Friend..and thank you for this post, great debate :) SUNSHINE

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naquoya (67) · 7 years ago

The movie Vaxxed is being shown here in Australia to sold out audiences. Voluntarily organised and distributed. And it is driving the Government and media nuts here. The biggest selling paper in Melbourne has been running major editorials arguing how anti-vaxxers are a cult, that the 'science is settled', and basically we should all just get in line.

Our eyes do not deceive us. Vaccines are dangerous. There is an agenda to spread chaos and mayhem through healthy populations. Children's lives are being destroyed.

What we are dealing with here is nothing short of Fascism.

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5 votes

websensei (46) · 7 years ago

Mandatory vaccination is one of the biggest mistakes of modern society. First of all, it's not always helpful for health. Otherwise, people want freedom of choice. Really important topic @kafkanarchy84.

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sunshine247 (54) · 7 years ago

You are so correct on this :) Most of the top Doctors in the world have been asked if they vaccinate their children and guess what the answer was..NO!!!!! Now, tell me why that is? @kafkanarchy84, I don't see anyone who has jumped on here who is even ready to debate you or this post. Could it be that the vaccinations have fried their ability to debate? Or maybe they have changed their opinion on vaccinations and are just afraid to admit it..either way, cant thank you enough for this post..I love seeing so many like-minded people who share like-minded opinions..although I do appreciate everyones opinion..it makes this fun :) SUNSHINE247

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

Being pro-individual natural rights is not the definition of antisocial. If individuals don't have their natural rights then that society is broken, tyrannical, and cannot succeed.

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shurik (38) · 7 years ago

About the so-called science. You do not need the so-called scientific studies, the conclusions of the so-called specialists and authorities. To understand what a vaccination is, you need common sense and the right question.
And I think one of the versions for the right question looks like this. Can the intervention in the natural development process benefit the child? Intervention rough - the injection of dirt into the blood, bypassing the majority of protective barriers of the body. And common sense tells. Nothing good will come of it.

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valued-customer (67) · 7 years ago

There's no way I can honestly argue the 'pro' side of that debate. Forcibly injecting me is a crime. Forcibly injecting many is a crime against humanity.

There is also no such thing as settled science. If science were settled every time some scientist or other has said it was, scientists would be extinct. Every time some guru or another says 'This is the way it is! It is absolutely fact!', soon there is some revision, or even a complete revolution in the science.

That, in fact, is the point of science.

If you just want a shill to defeat, and you're paying well, I am sure you can find someone to verbally abuse.

I'm just a terrible liar, so you'll need someone else =p

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4 votes

nocturnal (48) · 7 years ago

Agreed. Arguing "the science is settled" about pretty much anything in a debate is a sucker's move, and especially in this particular debate, where the anti-vax side has so much evidence (of various quality) of exceptions to the rule.

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apple64 (5) · 7 years ago

This post is great! I upvoted and resteemed to help the other people to read it too :D

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sunshine247 (54) · 7 years ago

I am going to wait until morning an resteem so it keeps going - this is always a HOT topic :) Have a GREAT start to your Saturday! SUNSHINE

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kafkanarchy84 (74) · 7 years ago

Thank you!

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kafkanarchy84 (74) · 7 years ago

Thanks so much.

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sleepy-gary (50) · 7 years ago

Lol, I'd debate you if I wasn't of the opinion that Mercury is terrible for the body, the science is NOT settled and forcing people to medicate against their will is immoral.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170075/
This paper brings up a correlation between vaccination and SIDS...mentioning that before 1969 it was an almost unheard of phenomenon, but after "US infants were required to receive several doses of DPT, polio, measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines" they started documenting SIDS on a more frequent basis.

My question is: If vaccines are absolutely essential to survival, how did humans survive until 1797? (I understand they have helped a lot, but come on. Better diets and sanitation have gone a long way to eradicating disease, too. We hardly ever mention their importance.)

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3 votes

kafkanarchy84 (74) · 7 years ago (edited)

Yes, and SIDS is so clearly a catch-all term, and a convenient on for the pharmaceutical industry. Nearly anything can be classified as "SIDS." It's an insult to science and our intelligence as individuals. Why did this baby die? Oh, SIDS? What does that mean? Oh, it means you don't know so that is why you call it SIDS? Could it be from an adverse reaction to a vaccine? No? Why? OOOHHHH. Because it's "SIDS." How convenient.

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sleepy-gary (50) · 7 years ago

It's disgusting, and they usually follow it up with the Appeal to Authority argument, "Well, I'm a doctor."

Science is rapidly replacing the Priest class as our unquestionable "Truth Bearers".

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sunshine247 (54) · 7 years ago

Doctors are not God!! Its funny to me how so many people bow to the man in the white coat - Times are changing, people are waking up and are getting educated - there are always going to be resistance crowds but that is normal .. there is a reason everything refers to zombies anymore .. they are getting us conditioned for the zombie future .. poisoned world. SUNSHINE247

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thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago

Any pediatrician who knows what they'rr talking about will tell you SIDS doesn't exist anymore. Never did. An infant's death can almost always be explained.

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kafkanarchy84 (74) · 7 years ago

Yes.

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pork-brother (35) · 7 years ago

This deserves some attention. Upvoted and resteemed :]

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kafkanarchy84 (74) · 7 years ago

Cheers, thank you.

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freehumanbeing (27) · 7 years ago

'Forced vaccination is not always a violation of individual self-ownership'

'Forced SEX is not always a violation of...'

You people need to grasp high and string what the Fucking Consent is...
Before going anywhere with any of your politics thought,
If you can't grab the lawful aspect of Consent you are going nowhere but Tyranny...

Oh and btw, if vaccines are so fucking safe and efficient you take no risk beside non vaccinated... So leave people alone, have yourself your dose of mercury and aluminum, leave in denial over this

You're just Statist wrap in a nicer veil but your chore is 'control'

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3 votes

shurik (38) · 7 years ago

Is the parent the owner of the child? Or is the parent a guardian, a teacher and a friend? If the second option, then we go further. Does the parent have the right to ~~use~~ ~~the~~ ~~vaccine~~ to put inhumane experiences with unpredictable consequences by his or her child? That is the question!

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thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago

Getting a shot is an inhumane experience?

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

If it is not consensual, it is inhumane. In fact, ANY medical procedure done without consent is a war crime under international convention. It is the very first line of the Nuremberg code. All you have to do is read the first line, that's it. If you like reading, please read further, but it says it all in the first line.

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thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago (edited)

I wonder how you feel about circumcision. Unrelated, I know, but not entirely.

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

I had no choice in the matter. What's done is done.

From the research I've done it has more dangers than benefits and is usually performed on those too young to consent. The same has been true of those born with ambiguous genitalia. I think people should have their genitals left alone unless there is a life threatening condition.

I particularly despise those engaged in Female Genital Mutilation. I think this is a combination of torture, rape, and assault, if not attempted murder. Anyone engaged in the practice should be held to the penalty of capital crime, just as the NAZI doctors at Nuremberg.

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thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago

Why is female circucision worse? Genital mutilation is genital mutilation.

I completely agree that pieces of genetalia should not be removed at birth.

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

I can't say one is worse than the other having only experienced one, and it being impossible for me to experience the other. Both are invasive, traumatic, and unnecessary.

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shurik (38) · 7 years ago

Yes absolutely true. To understand why this is inhumane, it is necessary to give the correct definition of the so-called shot. Here is the definition that I think is right.
Vaccination is the injection of dirt into the blood, bypassing most of the protective barriers of the child's body. Nothing good will come of it. And once again, I emphasize vaccination is anti-humane or inhumane.

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thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago

Lmao

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shurik (38) · 7 years ago

Is it really that funny?
Then here's another joke.
The state is a terrorist organization.

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thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago

Not everything is a conspiracy. No one is out to get you. If someone wanted to kill your children, they wouldn't use something that could make them stronger...

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shurik (38) · 7 years ago (edited)

Unconvincing. Many cases when children become crippled after vaccination. After the first such case in a healthy society, the practice of vaccination would have to stop. But alas.
One more thing. A person who does not understand how the human body is arranged can do much harm even if he has the good intentions.
And now on the points. 1) I did not talk about conspiracies. 2) What does this mean? 3) I did not say that someone wants to kill my children. And vaccines do not make children stronger.

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thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago

The idea that vaccines are injuring or killing children, yet doctors continue to push them for no other reason than to profit would be a conspiracy.

Vaccines do make children stronger by teaching their immune system to fight certain pathogens.

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Show 6 more replies

orenshani7 (64) · 7 years ago

I had to take a measles vaccinaton before going to Europe because enough idiots decided not to vaccinate their children.

So what do I think of that? Yes I think that mandatory vaccination is a violation of body ownership in a way, but here is the thing: People have to make up their minds if they want to live within or without society. If you want to live an antisocial life, go ahead and find yourself a secluded cave or a log cabin in the woods, and then, you really don't need to vaccinate yoursel or your childeren. But if you want to live within society then it bares some responsibilities and sucrafices, and one of them is vaccination.

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canadian-coconut (69) · 7 years ago

You are griping that you had to take a vaccine that you didn't want,
because some other people didn't take vaccines that they didn't want?

I don't get it ...

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5 votes

kafkanarchy84 (74) · 7 years ago

Touché! Didn't even spot that one!

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orenshani7 (64) · 7 years ago

Hmmm… that's a good point because basically you are saying that if anyone who chooses to take the vaccine is fully protect themselves then why making vaccination mandatory?

Well you have to consider another factor and that is the chances of the disease to become an epidemic, which are reduced to zero if the portion of the population that is immuned to it, is above a certain threshold. So now the question becomes, can we trust that if the vaccination is not mandatory, enough people will choose to vaccinate?

Well I’m afraid that the answer is no, as the fact that there is now a measle epidemic in parts of Europe shows.

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8 votes

aboutyourbiz (54) · 7 years ago

that's a good point because basically you are saying that if anyone who chooses to take the vaccine is fully protect themselves then why making vaccination mandatory?

That's not what she said. She said it's ironic you don't want to be forced to take a vaccine, but you want others to be forced to take that same vaccine, and you're complaining about being forced to take it.

She doesn't understand

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orenshani7 (64) · 7 years ago

Where did I say that I don't want to be forced to take the vaccine?

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aboutyourbiz (54) · 7 years ago

I had to take a measles vaccinaton before going to Europe because enough idiots decided not to vaccinate their children.

If you don't remember, maybe you have a vaccine injury

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

Rank fear mongering.

Good ideas don't need to be mandated.

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aboutyourbiz (54) · 7 years ago

It's ironic he makes the herd immunity argument yet he has been unvaccinated (measles) his whole life.

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

Not 'in a way'. In every way. Mandatory vaccination is a war crime under the Nuremberg code.

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kafkanarchy84 (74) · 7 years ago (edited)

I had to take a measles vaccinaton before going to Europe because enough idiots decided not to vaccinate their children.

Each and every one of these individuals who chose not to vaccinate is an "idiot," in your view? There are many reasons why vaccinations can be dangerous for various individuals (mitochondrial predispositions, allergies, etc), which could foreseeably cause thoughtful and knowledgeable parents to forgo the procedure.

Second, why weren't you already vaccinated?

But if you want to live within society then it bares some responsibilities and sucrafices, and one of them is vaccination.

Isn't each individual's health (and the health of their children) their own responsibility, and not the responsibility of others?

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orenshani7 (64) · 7 years ago

I was born in 1965. The WHO measles vaccination operation only started two years earlier in 1963. The vaccination only became rutine in Israel in 1966.

So I didn't choose not to get the vaccine. Those who choose not to, well yes, I think they are idiots if they prefer to believe Tom Cruise and doubt scientific research.

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9 votes

kafkanarchy84 (74) · 7 years ago

There are several peer-reviewed, published scientific studies that suggest more research and testing is warranted as regards vaccine safety? What of those? And what of children with pre-existing mitcochondrial conditions which put them at higher risk for vaccine injury?

Those studies mean nothing? Those parents are also "idiots?" Why?

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago (edited)

Nice Tom Cruise straw man, and continuing ad hominems, followed by appeal from authority. That'll convince someone to agree with you.

Scientific research is not a god or a king. It is up to each individual to interpret the data for themselves, and it is the individual's responsibility to sort out what is lie or error.

But if you want to live within society then it bares some responsibilities and sucrafices, and one of them is vaccination.

I was born in 1965. The WHO measles vaccination operation only started two years earlier in 1963. The vaccination only became rutine in Israel in 1966.

By your logic here, you are saying that you didn't choose not to get vaccinated, you simply shirked your 'social responsibilities and sacrifices' for 52 years minus 18 years to reach the age of consent = 34 years of abandonment of your 'social responsibility'. Does that make you a good arbiter of what responsibility is?

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orenshani7 (64) · 7 years ago

No I did not because I was not obliged, nor I had to vaccinate while living in a country where most people are vaccinated.

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

Do you understand the words that are coming out of your keyboard?

But if you want to live within society then it bares some responsibilities and sucrafices, and one of them is vaccination.

Social responsibility does not require obligation or it would be written into law. If it were written into law it would violate individual natural rights. It only works if it is voluntary.

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orenshani7 (64) · 7 years ago

I agree, but my point was that you have to make up your mind either way, altough now that I think of it, I was demanding social responsibility from the ant-social...

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sunshine247 (54) · 7 years ago

I was just about to ask him the same thing? Weren't you already vaccinated? And if you weren't, how come you did not get the measles from all of the walking idiots? Us unvaccinated idiots do live in society, you should be afraid..STAY IN YOUR HOUSE..You may catch the measles :) Better yet, you may run into one of us and get educated .. I love you for your opinion .. SUNSHINE247

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dandelion (53) · 7 years ago

You "had to", meaning that you were not permitted to enter the Schengen Area without proof of vaccination? Or you DECIDED to, based on information you received?

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aboutyourbiz (54) · 7 years ago

unvaccinated people who don't have the measles pose a risk to you getting measles how? They don't have it to give to you. It's the ones who get the vaccination that shed the virus.

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orenshani7 (64) · 7 years ago

You don't understand how vaccination works, do you?

Okay so let me explain: When a virus like the measles virus invades a person’s body, the immune system of this person begins to produce antibodies for this virus. This process takes time, and during this time the virus can spread to other people. So what the vaccine does, is to get the immune system more ready for the possibility of an attack by a specific virus (or bacteria or other infections). If a large enough portion of the population is vaccinated against a certain disease, it cannot become an epidemic. Even more so, if the virus or bacteria that causes this disease cannot spread itself fast enough, it will be completely eradicated from the area where the proportion of vaccinated people is large enough and then people like myself who are not vaccinated are safe in that region.

Unfortunately we cannot eradicate disease causing viruses and bacteria completely from the face of the earth, so we have to make sure that the population is vaccinated all the time.

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10 votes

lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

If you don't understand shedding, then it is you who don't understand vaccination.

There are superior, safer, cheaper, technologies available to those who can move past the archaic vaccination cul-de-sac.

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aboutyourbiz (54) · 7 years ago

you presume someone unvaccinated has the measles with no basis for that presumption
you shed the virus after having the vaccination
herd immunity is the bullshit they sell to get people to vaccinate. adults who were vaccinated as children don't get the boosters.

So what's in the vaccine?

potassium chloride - Until 2009, most states used a three-drug combination for lethal injections: an anesthetic (usually sodium thiopental, until pentobarbital was introduced at the end of 2010), pancuronium bromide (a paralytic agent, also called Pavulon), and potassium chloride (stops the heart and causes death). https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/state-lethal-injection

urea - a soluble weakly basic nitrogenous compound CO(NH2)2 that is the chief solid component of mammalian urine and an end product of protein decomposition, is synthesized from carbon dioxide and ammonia, and is used especially in synthesis (as of resins and plastics) and in fertilizers and animal rations https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/urea

monosodium L-glutamate (MSG)- Monosodium glutamate (MSG) is a flavor enhancer commonly added to Chinese food, canned vegetables, soups and processed meats. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified MSG as a food ingredient that's "generally recognized as safe," but its use remains controversial. For this reason, when MSG is added to food, the FDA requires that it be listed on the label. http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/monosodium-glutamate/faq-20058196

aborted human fetal cells - does this really need a definition?

bovine serum - Bovine serum is a by-product of the meat industry. Bovine blood may be taken at the time of slaughter, from adult cattle, calves, very young calves or (when cows that are slaughtered are subsequently found to be pregnant) from bovine fetuses. http://vaccines.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005206#bovine

Meat industry byproduct, hmmm. CAFO is a commonly used acronym for concentrated animal feeding operation. http://www.sierraclub.org/michigan/why-are-cafos-bad E. coli 0157:H7 - Cattle are reservoirs for Shiga toxin producing E. coli bacteria. E. coli 0157:H7 strains do not make cattle sick because their bodies do not have receptors like humans do for the toxin to attach and replicate. Meat typically becomes contaminated with E. coli during the slaughtering process http://sphweb.bumc.bu.edu/otlt/mph-modules/ph/livestockproduction/LivestockProduction6.html

These are just a few of the ingredients in the Merck vaccine. I think I'll take my chances with the measles, oh wait, I already had the measles as a child, and miracle of miracles, I SURVIVED.

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orenshani7 (64) · 7 years ago

@aboutyourbiz, are you a Md or an immunologist?

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aboutyourbiz (54) · 7 years ago

Are you?

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

This is the genetic fallacy.

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nataliejohnson (64) · 7 years ago

I agree with your stance on vaccines - they are a pertinent issue in regards to our freedom. The government forcing you to take a vaccine is like someone holding a bottle of poison and saying you must drink this. The idea that we would be expected to take a vaccine, knowing the risks (if we are informed) is crazy.

I think once enough people take a stand against vaccines the government will back down, at least on the surface. However, there are so many other ways the government is poisoning us, so that is just another battle to be fought. The government prefers passiveness because it makes their job easier. Once citizens wake up to what's going on, I personally believe vaccines won't be pushed quite so hard. I think they will simply move to another area for awhile that people are less informed of.

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kafkanarchy84 (74) · 7 years ago

I think they will simply move to another area for awhile that people are less informed of.

That's a really interesting point and perspective. I haven't really thought of it from that angle, but that makes a lot of sense.

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maxer27 (64) · 7 years ago

A few years ago I was against vaccination. But a bit later I have reconsidered the views. I have understood that vaccination certainly is necessary.

Thank you for a raising of this question.

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

Mandatory vaccination is a war crime under the Nuremberg code. Consent is required.

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thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago (edited)

There are likely chance side effects of vaccines, but the benefits far outweigh the down sides.

We now live in a world where ensuring our future safety from disease is as simple as getting a shot. Yes, vaccines make people sick. That's the point. Vaccines should be mandatory for any child that will be in close proximity to other human beings.

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kafkanarchy84 (74) · 7 years ago

There are likely chance side effects of vaccines, but the benefits far outweigh the down sides.

How can I possibly know that the benefits outweigh the downsides when the tens of hundreds of claims submitted to the VAERS database, the stories of countless parents, and peer-reviewed, published scientific studies suggesting further research are promptly and summarily ignored by the medical community?

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thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago

In the rare case of "vaccine injury", which I still don't blame the vaccine itself for, I would MUCH rather have a child be injured by a preventative treatment than to die from something that could have been treated.

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kafkanarchy84 (74) · 7 years ago

Again, how can you do an accurate risk/benefit analysis with data that is ignored?

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thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago

Are tons of children dying from vaccines? Because tons of children are dying from preventable diseases like measles...

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canadian-coconut (69) · 7 years ago

Yes, TONS of children are dying from vaccines. It is usually called SIDS.

The medical community for the most part is not acknowledging it.
But sometimes they do acknowledge it to the parents, and even file vaccine adverse reaction reports, yet the media and medical world will never talk about those events. They just keep assuring us that a vaccine reaction is one in a million, when that CLEARLY is not the case.

I have a good friend who had her first vaccine at age 5, and immediately stopped breathing and had to be resuscitated and hospitalized for 5 months while they tried to save her life. Her doctors fully acknowledge that it was the vaccine.

And I have several other friends whose children have had terrible reactions to vaccines.

Look at my blog here on Steemit to hear many, many more stories of vaccine injury.

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thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago

I still believe those stories are rare in the grand scheme. Every one of my friends and family have been vaccinated, all my friends' children are vaccinated, save a couple people, every single person I know has been vaccinated. For some reason though, of all those hundreds or maybe thousands of shots, I'd never even heard of vaccine injury until social media became a thing. Now, maybe vaccine injury is just rare in my area, but I doubt that.

SIDS doesn't exist btw. It never did. It's a catch-all term when a doctor can't pinpoint what caused the death. If a child dies from a vaccine, it's not SIDS.

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egregorian (51) · 7 years ago

10% maybe of adults is up to date on their vaccines. I have only had the dtap after getting cut at work once since grade 10. Vaccines do not work forever. I never get sick. So saying one wass vaccinated as a child means nothing now as an adult if one does not get periodic boosters, which then make you an infectious carrier again. In some places even pregnant woman are vaccinated WTF! The schedule for children now is criminal. They even want to give infants vaccines that are defending against sexual transmitted diseases, again WTF. Most 'outbreaks' are in areas where a vaccine push has just happened. No actual study has been done to show vaccine safety or effectiveness. You never heard of vaccine injury before because the companies that make them are NOT allowed to be filed against or sued. Also you have heard of it, as autoimmune diseases, diseases related to digestion, neurological damage in many forms. The lists go on. To properly understand what is happening here, one must understand birth and early childhood development. When one grasps that importance properly, they would never consider vaccinating a child to be a good thing. Once they are 3 go for it if it makes a person feel good. Before then, it sets a child up for so many problems with health. And who gets paid for a sick kid. The same fucking people who male the vaccines.

lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

I still believe those stories are rare in the grand scheme.

Belief is the problem. Thinking and knowing is the aim.

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aboutyourbiz (54) · 7 years ago

Because tons of children are dying from preventable diseases like measles…

Bullshit. People used to have their kids play together if the measles started going around so their kids could get it over with. You don't do that with a deadly disease.

A 1962 issue of Parents’ Magazine & Better Homemaking stated that, “Measles has always been accepted as part of the growing-up process, as much a part of childhood as stubbed toes and dirty hands.” In fact, some parents even organized measles parties. According to a 1960 article in the Los Angeles Times entitled “‘Measles Parties’ Put Spots on Tots,” this was a growing trend in Canada, where parents wanted their children to come down with the disease before adulthood. quoted from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-d-moreno/will-measles-parties-retu_b_14479732.html

They don't want people having measles parties again because it would expose the lie that measles is deadly.

"tons" of people are dying from measles? Stats or it's a lie.

~ from a measles survivor from the measles party era

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http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/zero-u-s-measles-deaths-in-10-years-but-over-100-measles-vaccine-deaths-reported/

lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

This is a false dichotomy.

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

What about the percentage of people that the vaccines kill outright? Mandatory vaccination is murder.

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thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago

A lot less than fast food does. Making your children eat trash is harmful to them.

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

Eating fast food is voluntary. No one is trying to make it mandatory, except probably the McMarketing department.

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aboutyourbiz (54) · 7 years ago

This doesn't answer the question @lifeworship asked. And injecting trash into you children is more harmful because at least in the digestive system the body has a chance to fight, since the digestive system is a large part of the immune system and injecting bypasses that part of the immune system.

This does not endorse fast food, because you're right about that, it's trash and shouldn't be eaten.

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thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago

Do you even science, bro? Did you just say injecting something bypasses part of the immune system?

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

Do you even know what the scientific method is or how it works? How about the structure of the English language? Bro.

The only worse injection site than injecting pathogens and/or toxins into the body or blood would be to inject it directly into the brain. Yes, it bypasses the formidable 'first responders' of the immune system.

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thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago

The entire point to vaccination is to expose someone to a pathogen. It's the only way your body is going to learn to fight it. What gets injected is far weaker, and in less volume, than if you naturally come in contact with the disease.

At least I'll be able to say that my children will likely never get another child sick with something that I can help prevent.

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

The entire point to vaccination that we are fed by the industry is based on lies. This is clearly demonstrated by the increase in polio cases where vaccination was employed.
http://vaxtruth.org/2012/03/the-polio-vaccine-part-2-2/

Don't worry, the references are at the bottom of the article.

You can say that your children will likely never get another child sick with something that you can help prevent, but will it be true?

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aboutyourbiz (54) · 7 years ago (edited)

“A huge proportion of your immune system is actually in your GI tract,” says Dan Peterson, assistant professor of pathology at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/research/advancements-in-research/fundamentals/in-depth/the-gut-where-bacteria-and-immune-system-meet

The GI tract is part of the digestive system. Last I heard an arm or leg, where they usually give the shot, is not part of the digestive system.

Maybe someone else needs to science.

Edited to add: Do you have the stats for the "tons" of children dying from the measles yet btw? Or an answer to @lifeworship's question?

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thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago

I have like six people responding to everything I say. No, I don't have the time to do a bunch of google searches to prove my point to people who I don't care to sway. I have children to take care of. Arguing with anti-vaxxers is kinda like arguing with faith. It's pointless for me to continue

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http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/mmrdeaths.asp

lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

It seems to me that those who don't have time to do research are the ones living on faith alone.

Your frustration in arguing may lie in the fact that you have presented NO actual arguments.

thatsweeneyguy (61) · 7 years ago

But just to humor you... The World Health Organization states that around 145,000 people died from measles in 2013 alone.

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aboutyourbiz (54) · 7 years ago

Sorry, but Snopes is no better than wikipedia, which I purposely stayed away from in any of my comments on this article.

We can agree to disagree and even find other topics we can agree on. I can respect you have to do what you think is best for your children. But I should also be respected for doing what I think is best for mine. :)

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Show 2 more replies

padmakshi (52) · 7 years ago

great post ! nice video

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rindi118 (48) · 7 years ago

Thanks for sharing, great post.

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allcapsusername (25) · 7 years ago

Today an argentinean page dedicated to raising science awareness, skepticism if you will, posted in Facebook that vaccines should be always mandatory. I wanted to state my disagreement but decided not to, because I didn't want to be a useful fool to pseudoscience, which is almost omnipresent in Argentina, and because I prefer to keep a low profile online.

I do believe that the scientific knowledge on vaccination is enough to say they're safe and effective, but you're absolutely right about it being a violation of self-ownership.

To be honest, I think said violation is a neccesary evil, but it's still a violation.

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago (edited)

There are superior technologies available to those who can find their way out of this industry generated cul-de-sac. Mandatory vaccination is not only a violation of self-ownership. It is a war crime under the Nuremberg code. It says it in the very first line. Evil is never necessary.

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catskilljune (31) · 7 years ago

A while back I ran into a rusty nail and went to my dr for a tetanus shot. The dr was outstanding, and asked me if I was sure I wanted the shot. Without realizing he was warning me I took the shot. Fortunately nothing bad happened, I think.

What is happening today with the 70+ vaccines that children are getting is criminal. Why? It seems a substance called nagalese is in the vaccines along with the heavy metal mercury. Nagalese prevents the body from utilizing Vitamin D. The list of healers, like chiropractors and naturopaths being murdered by the deep state is growing. They have discovered this ingredient in the vaccines and they had to go.

Th deep state, particularly the medical mafia, needs a constant supply of sick patients, not to cure them but to manage their illness and keep the profits coming in. Vaccines given to babies is a travesty.

My niece is a nurse and we have an ongoing disagreement about vaccines. She, of course, believes the doctors and injects her two children according to the schedule. She wont even read anything to the contrary but posts to FB a site called Moms for Vaccines...every child must get vaccinated is their credo. It is sad and I Have backed off the discussion with her. Being a nurse gives her the superior position. NOT.

Anyway that is my take on vaccines.

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applesspatrick (53) · 7 years ago

Your post is great, you can check mine too, some basic idea on breast cancer. Please upvoat and follow if possible. Would be a great encouragement. Thanks
https://steemit.com/health/@applesspatrick/breast-cancer-stay-healthy-stay-updated-and-stay-happy

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tylerdourden (50) · 7 years ago

Soy vacunado desde pequeño para los distintos tipos de enfermedades que se intentan prevenir acá en mi país, pero en mi edad adulta no he dejado que me vacunen debido a que he perdido el interés, sin embargo cabe resaltar que ante un síntoma de gripa opto por la inyección que en 3 días logra quitarme esa peste. Actualmente las vacunas son obligatorias para los niños de mi país y todo debido a grandes campañas publicitarias asustando a las madres de que si no vacunan sus hijos los pueden perder etc..

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aboutyourbiz (54) · 7 years ago

From Google translate: I have been vaccinated since I was a child for the different types of diseases that are trying to prevent here in my country, but in my adulthood I have not been vaccinated because I have lost interest, however it is important to point out that a flu symptom opts for The injection that in 3 days manages to take away that plague. Currently the vaccines are obligatory for the children of my country and all due to great publicity campaigns frightening the mothers that if they do not vaccinate their children they can lose them etc.

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charles1 (68) · 7 years ago

Many people are against forced vacination,( rightfully) especially if abused. However there are a lot of benefits to vacination , which has saved our planet from sicknesses that can wipe out humanity.

Do you use bogs , and what is your opinion about bots ? feel free to see my latest post about the subject and send in your comment. I wish you more success and hope that we stay in touch. Wish you a blessed weekend

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

All of the claims made for the effectiveness of vaccination were already being accomplished by improvements in sanitation, hygiene, and nutrition. The historical statistics bear this out. These diseases, as well as some for which no vaccines exist, were in decline before the popularization of vaccination. This information is readily available if one looks past the industry funded rhetoric and the parrots.

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charles1 (68) · 7 years ago

I guess that you are against vaccination?

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lifeworship (66) · 7 years ago

If at all possible, and under no circumstances should anyone be forced.

There are superior, safer, cheaper technologies available. I found one while mining the online patent record for cancer treatments. You might be surprised at what you can find there.

Since then, I haven't been sick in six years. I think it works, and it didn't injure me like vaccination did.

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charles1 (68) · 7 years ago

Good point, I agree. Lets just hope for the best even use bots to make it perfect as indicated in my blog post...haha.
Wish you more success.

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