The dangerous growing divide between those who vaccinate and those who don'tsteemCreated with Sketch.

in vaccines •  8 years ago  (edited)

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Divide & conquer is the oldest trick in the book and we the people continue to fall for it time after time.

And more and more these days I am seeing a growing split between the two schools of thought on the subject of vaccination, with no middle ground to be found.

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This image from the jungle book reminds me of a child's innocence when looking upon the giant serpent.


The Problem

There has been much money spent on a huge media campaign over the course of the last few decades, designed to influence the perception of the masses on this subject. And it has worked very well indeed. Today we blindly accept vaccination as common practice and Big Pharma is making a fortune.

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I chose (after extensive research) to not vaccinate my first born child Esteban and posted about my decision at the time on Facebook.

In case you were wondering, Esteban is over 2 years old now, NEVER gets sick and has more energy & love for the world around him than you can imagine!

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The Solution

Just to clarify what has gone wrong over the years, breast milk contains EVERYTHING a baby needs (including a type of NATURAL vaccination), assuming the mother is getting adequate nutrition. But the perception now is that you are better off buying formula milk.

Hmmmm. Not for my children thank you very much.

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Esteban is a vegan like his dad, meaning that his immune system will be much stronger than other kids. He doesn't eat or drink processed sugar and ingests a huge quantity of raw fruit every day as a smoothie, so that it is assimilated into his bloodstream in the most efficient manner possible.

That's right folks, the stomach doesn't have teeth. So liquid food provides a more efficient energy delivery system, unless you masticate (chew) sufficiency... which few people do.

Esteban's 2 year old immune system is already much stronger than most adults. So I have no fears relating to his health.

And if you're thinking about to asking where a vegan's protein comes from, talk to this guy!

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The Vaccine Rage

To say that the responses on Facebook were surprisingly aggressive would be a serious understatement.

Around 75% of my Facebook 'friends' and family suddenly jumped out of the woodwork (many of them after not communicating with me for years) to violently accuse me of nativity, child cruelty and even went as far as saying that my unvaccinated children were somehow putting their vaccinated children at risk, implying that I should be incarcerated for my crimes.

And these people were my friends! I can only imagine what people who don't know me might have said.... or done to me.

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But how does their argument make sense?

Could anyone please explain this to me? How can it possibly be that a baby who is supposedly protected against a myriad of diseases suddenly becomes more susceptible to disease just because they are standing next to an unvaccinated child?

Despite the complete lack of logic, that is the mindset of the average media consuming civilian these days and my unvaccinated children are more and more becoming viewed as a threat to vaccinated children.

It is very unlikely that my children will ever be able to go to a school. Not a problem for me of course as I am planning to home educate, but many people do not have the time, money or inclination to take on such a huge responsibility.

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The Division Begins

I felt so shocked about the intense hatred being directed towards me (due to the Facebook post) that I took the time to shoot a film from outside my home answering my accusers' points and calmly speaking my perspective. And I released the film as part of my ongoing series Sammy's Simple Solutions to my network of social media followers.

However, this just made them even angrier and didn't help at all!

You can watch the film here for a more detailed explanation of why I chose not to vaccinate Esteban & Luna. And see for yourself if you think I over stepped the mark?

The International Clampdown

There are an ever growing number of countries forcing vaccinations upon us now, through law, misinformation and brainwashing. Even here in Indonesia, the Balinese women save for months so that they can give their children the recommended diarrhea vaccine at the age of 3 months.

I mean what???? Diarrhea is a natural reaction to something that needs to exit the body quickly. So whilst the vaccine may prevent diarrhea, what are the long term effects of this? Ah yes, the requirement for more pharmaceutical drugs in later life to continue fixing the symptoms created by these pharmaceutical drugs. How very convenient.

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The bottom line around here is that everyone trusts the doctor.

He must know best because he has been educated, right?

What people don't realise of course is that these doctors were most likely educated by a medical institution financed by the same people who sell the vaccines. And there are endless cases in which doctors have been exposed for accepting bribes from Big Pharma to ensure a continued flow of pharmaceutical recommendations. The settlements of millions happened in court with few mainstream newspapers reporting on it. Hmmm... could it be that the medical and media industry are connected?

I suspect most of you can already answer that question.

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A Few Stats

  • Every single state in the United States requires children to be vaccinated before attending school.

  • In Australia vaccination is not compulsory but the Maternity Immunisation Allowance & Child Care Benefit are parent incentive payments that are paid where a child is up-to-date with his/her immunisations or the parent has obtained an appropriate medical or philosophical exemption. Ultimately forcing vaccination.

  • Slovenia has one of the world’s most aggressive and comprehensive vaccination programs. Its program is mandatory for nine designated diseases. Within the first three months of life, infants must be vaccinated for tuberculosis, tetanus, polio, pertussis, and Haemophilus influenza type B. Within 18 months, vaccines are required for measles, mumps and rubella, and finally, before a child starts school, the child must be vaccinated for hepatitis B.

And FYI, The World Health Organization has no official policy on mandatory vaccinations!


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Recent News Stories

Two years ago in France a couple who refused to have their children vaccinated against polio, diphtheria and tetanus, meaning that their children were not permitted to go to school.

Samia Larère and her husband Marc argued that the obligatory inoculations may do more harm than good, risked two years in prison and a €30,000 (£19,000) fine for not arranging for their infants, aged three and 15 months, to have the jabs.

Their case sparked a national debate on France’s strict laws on vaccines. But ultimately changed nothing.

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In Conclusion

Other than the obvious health implications of pumping your children full of chemicals from their first month of life onwards, it has created a 'them and us' situation.

Those who have woken to the beast that is Big Pharma and those who cannot possibly accept the truth because to do so would be to admit that they had knowingly poisoned their children. Indeed, this is a tough pill to swallow.

And it seems to me that the two groups are coming closer and closer to clashing...

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WE MUST REMEMBER HISTORY!

Let us not forget how Hitler managed to persuade an entire nation that the Jews were the enemy!

Having someone or something to hate is a very powerful distraction from the failings of the government and ultimately nothing more than a control mechanism.

This is a huge subject and I would like to go into it further, but the bottom line is this:

QUESTION EVERYTHING!

QUESTION EVERONE!

RESEARCH EVERYTHING!


Just because a man in a white coat holds out the syringe with a smile telling you everything is going to be okay....

...DOES NOT MEAN IT IS TRUE.

And please note that it is not the doctors fault that they doesn't know the truth. They believe themselves to have had the best education available and most likely genuinely want to help you. So, we must always respect them whilst still keeping one eye on the bigger picture.

Blessings to you all.

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Do you think smallpox got eradicated by vaccines or not? Do you think that it is just a coincindence that with the upcoming of vaccines some serious illnesses dropped by many many percent?

And please don't be like: "Measles aren't that bad, I had them too and i am normal". - I saw kids get serious complications from Measles - Not a beautiful picture.
And yes diarrhea is a normal reaction to many bacteria. But you know what? Diarrhea kills millions of people every year.

All scientific facts are clearly in the favour of vaccines. Vaccines propably have saved dozen millions of lives.
If you are awake and do some research before vaccinating it is wonderful. But the joy ends when you just believe some single persons over scientific knowledge.

Just the 2 cents of a aspiring doctor. And no, I am and was never bribed by any pharma company up to date.

Do you think smallpox got eradicated by vaccines or not? Do you think that it is just a coincindence that with the upcoming of vaccines some serious illnesses dropped by many many percent?

These are loaded questions, otherwise known as loaded question fallacy.
What is your basis for these questions?

All scientific facts are clearly in the favour of vaccines. Vaccines propably have saved dozen millions of lives.

Enlighten us with such fact that vaccines are in favour of.

If you are awake and do some research before vaccinating it is wonderful. But the joy ends when you just believe some single persons over scientific knowledge.

You have no reason to imply this, you imply that the poster is simply believing or relying on faith when the essence of the post is to Question, you have not questioned or asked about the research they have done, instead you came out swinging with loaded questions assuming that when the person was speaking about researching this subject they somehow didn't realize the complete lack of data, of evidence for the safety of vaccines and their efficacy. You could have asked "what research" and saved that rigamarole for when you could actually debate, you chose to conclude various things and assume the world, hardly behavior of a inquisitive and curious mind.

Nothing more need be said. Thank you.

How's it going with the randowhale? Appreciate your comment and respect that we have all lived different lives.

Have you met vegan children with Measles out of interest?

There are so many things I would like to say in response to your comments, but as you are an aspiring doctor I ask only that you question everything. There are many smoke screens and mirrors yet to be revealed to you.

Have you met vegan children with Measles out of interest?

I don't think he has as vegan children are the always healthiest.

Sadly my little baah baah baah baah baahrbara ann always refuses to eat his vegetables

Hello, my name is Gloria and I am Baah's caretaker this weekend.

I think it's great that my little prince of baahrain has taken an interest in this topic, it's one that should be very close to his heart.

Baah has been injured with autism due to a bad batch of the varicella vaccine and as such struggles with a few things like interacting with other people.

Please remember this when speaking with him, after all he is my rambunctious little fellow.

I never would have guessed. I've never had the slightest difficulty in interaction with him. He represents one of the sharpest minds on Steemit. It seems the ones who have problems interacting with him are those who do not know how to think properly.

Thank you for those things which you do for him.

Thank you so much for your kind words.

Yes, baah has always been a bit more advanced than the other kids on the playground. I'm really glad to hear you say that.

God bless.

Some people think they are all the hoopla because they can call people trolls since they flagged their bitconnect scam post, and then when people congratulate them on their content being curated as crap they rage flag them (me) and in turn try to troll them, keep trying and maybe you will accomplish something, no?

Is 'baahs-caretaker' someone trolling you?

I just like trolling trolls for fun sometimes, it's so easy. They have only a few tools in their kit, and they're not very intelligent, the i-repost guy for instance, he goes back to the well on the appeals to popularity, from authority, and genetic fallacy no matter how many times I called him on it.

I does help me keep in practice for real debate.

Thank you for all you do.

They are trying, I am wondering what they want to accomplish because it won't unwrite the exchanges that happened between them and me, I don't know what they want, they aren't bothering me though.

This post received a 3.2% upvote from @randowhale thanks to @theaustrianguy! For more information, click here!

Do you know anything from experience or just those things which you've been told? To whose 'scientific knowledge' are you referring? Is it the 'scientific knowledge' funded by the industry? Is it the archaic 'knowledge' that gets parroted over and over down through the generations without examination? Is it the 'information' pushed into law by regulatory agencies with incestuous ties to the industry? I gave up believing everything I was told, without examination, when I was a child. It's a shame that so many adults never give it up.

All scientific facts are clearly in the favour of vaccines

This is a really good post buddy.

Ironically, our 2 posts are trending right beside each other right now..... mine is on the poisoning of water supplies, by forced fluoridation.

I've been a water activist for a loonnnngggg time.

I hope you are well.

I'm with you 100%. It's hard seeing people around me fall into the fear trap, and I understand how for some vaccination might be a path of least resistance (to not vaccinate could increase fear in some people to such an extent that they might manifest even worse situations).

This is why I have promised myself to get my head right on this topic, so that when I do have children, I will be totally aligned with a natural, non-vaccination approach.

Awesome post!

Great post Sam, i also do not believe in pharmaceutical industry... Is just another way to control growth population... ;)
Supporting your project full time!!!

BOOOM!!!

Well said!

For me, it comes down to the use of force in that vaccinations have become increasingly compulsory, as you pointed out. Having to force vaccines on any population seems to imply evidence of their lack-luster utility.

If vaccines were as effective as advertised, a mandate wouldn't be required. People would line up and pay the price willingly. Research into the failings of vaccines wouldn't be so profitable if there weren't so many.

Making vaccinations optional is the best policy for all parties concerned. It will promote more vigorous research into vaccines as well as alternatives, because those options will have to prove themselves to consumers. If you can produce a vaccine that convinces an "anti-vaxer" of its utility, you've got a real winner on your hands.

Good ideas don't require force to be adopted.

Mandatory vaccination violates the Nuremberg code, being medical procedures performed without informed consent. It is in the very first line of the code.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

You were lucky.

Vaccines were originally invented to fight smallpox, which has since been eradicated.

That wouldn't have been the case if everyone decided simply to let smallpox "be" and not get vaccinated.

Its sad when science takes a back seat to feelings, especially when the person you are deciding for has no say in the prospect of potentially getting ill and suffering because of your decision.

Its very trendy right now to flaunt an anti-science philosophy, but I think that is misguided. However, you could say that this is Nature's way of thinning the population -- where those that refuse to embrace protection from disease will ultimately succumb to it.

Ironic, isn't it.

It's one long diatribe, without substance, if you could stop attacking the person for a change and spouting off common knowledge that has no intrepid place in this conversation begging people to research, it's sad that you missed the point of this whole post, to question everything.

The smallpox narrative aside, did you research to see how much of the population has received the smallpox vaccine and how good the immunity is, and how unlikely it is that vaccination did anything especially considering that during vaccinations numerous epidemics happened in different place where vaccination was mandatory, and it lead to far worse problems than without vaccination. Also smallpox like other disease was in vast decline in incidence of morbidity and mortality prior to vaccinations and graphs show those disease (measles/mumps, smallpox) being hardly affected by vaccines which were introduced when the rates of morbidity and mortality were so negligible that if people were, as they were, injured by the vaccines or the vaccine caused the disease it was made to stop, then it effectively negated any and all benefits. Again natural immunity is far more formidable than the artificial immunity that loses it's effectiveness after a couple years and requires booster shots, which means that at no time could there have been a full immunity to eradicate anything since the population was hardly vaccinated in such intensity. When these efforts were concentrated and manifested such as forced vaccinations, this has led to thinning of the population, like in the Philippines.

Interesting, you say I "attack", but I'm just stating an opinion without name-calling or any kind of emotional bluster.

You've replied with a dense paragraph that is difficult to parse, so I'll wait until you clarify with something a bit less bulky and awkward.

If you don't "believe" vaccines work, that's just fine with me - nature has a way of sorting out who has a good immune system. I don't need to lift a finger.

The paragraph is straightforward, and comprehensible to me. It says everything it needs to. Parsing it shouldn't be difficult to a practiced reader. Did you simply not want to attempt to refute the arguments?

"You've replied with a dense paragraph that is difficult to parse, so I'll wait until you clarify with something a bit less bulky and awkward."

I'm not sure where to put this logical fallacy, is it an appeal to stone, or perhaps an appeal to personal incredulity? Facts are sometimes 'bulky and awkward' to those who do not recognize them as such.

Trying to scare people into believing what you believe by saying 'nature will sort you out' is a transparent appeal to emotion, and appeal to threat.

Walls of text aren't conducive to parsing.

Its a pretty simple request. But seeing how emotionally invested you are, I suppose there's no point in pursuing it.

Believe what you want.

"But seeing how emotionally invested you are" You seem to keep repeating this after every cold, calculated, logical statement that I make.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

I parse walls of text all the time. It's only not conducive to parsing if the knowledge of reason isn't present to do it.

Then, finally, there is the difference between yourself and those who choose reason. You see, I don't 'believe', I think and know by using reason.

You were lucky.

You have no way of knowing that or validating that, that's why they aren't lucky, in a post that is begging you to research, you instead tell us that "you were lucky, it was vaccines".

Its sad when science takes a back seat to feelings, especially when the person you are deciding for has no say in the prospect of potentially getting ill and suffering because of your decision.

Again, this isn't validated or can be validated, this is another masked attack on the person that wrote the article, and their "luck" and "not so luck".

Its very trendy right now to flaunt an anti-science philosophy, but I think that is misguided. However, you could say that this is Nature's way of thinning the population -- where those that refuse to embrace protection from disease will ultimately succumb to it.

Another character attack.

I'm pointing out the irony in the opinion of the original poster.

If you think that counter-arguments are "attacks", then I suppose you are too emotionally invested to have a logical conversation about the material.

As to your point about "luck", you can invoke any mystery force you'd like. The point is that survivorship bias is very real, and by only focusing on positive outcomes ignores all the potentially bad ones.

If I've never used a seatbelt while in a car, and never have been harmed, it doesn't mean that I'll never be injured. It means that for those cumulative trips I was lucky that there wasn't an accident.

But again, it seems this whole topic is just a tempest in a teacup, so if you can't see my point -- that's fine. Reality will intrude eventually with or without my input.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

You're making character attacks, there is no counter argument in "You're lucky".

There is no point in You're lucky. It's simply stating that it was in spite of their belief they survived. Can you back this up, do you have a way to demonstrate that? No, if it was an argument it's a moot point.

If I've never used a seatbelt while in a car, and never have been harmed, it doesn't mean that I'll never be injured. It means that for those cumulative trips I was lucky that there wasn't an accident.

You're comparing seat belt use with mandatory vaccinations. That's a false analogy, because you have yet to demonstrate any efficiency of vaccines and implying it won't change things.

Its very trendy right now to flaunt an anti-science philosophy, but I think that is misguided. However, you could say that this is Nature's way of thinning the population -- where those that refuse to embrace protection from disease will ultimately succumb to it.

That's a counter argument. You called this person Anti-Science, can you demonstrate that, can you even make it an argument? There's about 3 false narratives going on in here:

What is trendy right now, what is trendy right now is flaunting anti-science philosophy, and refusing to embrace protection. You couldn't demonstrate any of those, period, especially how you come to talk about anti-science philosophy, what it means and why and how it is so. It's one attack after another, I can break it down all, but it's not necessary.

I see the event horizon of the emotionally-fueled black hole has consumed you.

Believe whatever you want.

Character attacks yet again, which you cannot demonstrate.

If you want to insult me do it to my face, you could have as easily bit your tongue and let me be a fool, but instead you're predicting my future and speaking of my person, you don't get to dismiss the numerous character attacks with another jab at my character. Come again.

Hello, my name is Gloria and I am Baah's caretaker this weekend.

I think it's great that my little prince of baahrain has taken an interest in this topic, it's one that should be very close to his heart. It's one he takes VERY personally.

Baah has been injured with autism due to a bad batch of the varicella vaccine and as such struggles with a few things like interacting with other people.

Please remember this when speaking with him, after all he is my rambunctious little fellow.

Awww look a little troll that used to be @queenelenor is tagging along and following me. How cute, .

It is unfortunate when science takes a back seat to dogma. I would encourage you to take a more in depth look at what happened to 'smallpox' and it's supposed eradication. Repeating something often does not make it a fact.

The scientific method is about questioning, not dogma. Calling something anti-science, because you don't believe it, does not make it so.

"Its sad when science takes a back seat to feelings" -talltim

Yeah, I see the irony.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I don't know anyone who has had smallpox.

I don't see reports from independent news media about smallpox outbreaks and the consequences.

I don't see people in a panic, wearing face masks and rubber gloves because they are terrified of contracting smallpox.

I'd say that smallpox is eradicated just by empirical observation alone.

You can believe what you want, it doesn't affect my logic or my critical analysis of flawed arguments.


Also, there's Polio.

I don't see any crippled children from polio in the news, or in iron lungs.

That was also vaccinated to extinction.

But there I go again, citing logical arguments :)

Also, there's Polio.
I don't see any crippled children from polio in the news, or in iron lungs.
That was also vaccinated to extinction.
But there I go again, citing logical arguments :)

Ok, tell us about Acute Flaccid Paralysis Syndrome. It's not a critical logical argument by a long shot, first iron lungs have long been outdated and replaced with smaller breathing devices, and the polio symptoms are exactly the same for AFPS, which is what it was reclassified as.

The smallpox vaccine didn't eradicate anything, in populations where it was forced vaccinations like the Philippines there was major outbreaks, and people developed other disease because of vaccination. You're spouting off nonsense in a thread begging you to research and calling your vomited "where's polio" strawmen critical logical arguments.

You were lucky is not a critical logical argument.
It's Sad, is not a critical logical argument.
Also there's Polio, I don't see any kids in iron lungs or the news, where's polio, that's not critical, logical or an argument, its nonsense.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I just did a google search for "smallpox cases 2017". The only "hit" that resulted in a direct case was a researcher who accidentally got infected studying it. That was in 1978.

You'd think in this always-connected world of smartphones and internet connections there would be an immediate alarm and flow of news stories if it were on the loose again.

I did the same search for polio, and only turned up a few cases in the Democratic Republic of the Congo in Africa, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Not particularly countries that have effective resources to combat such a disease.

But it seems you're emotionally invested in your position, so I won't bother going forward. I don't have unlimited time at my disposal. Believe what you want, reality has a way of intruding anyway.

'I just did a google search' is the most repeated cop out that I see these days. Scanning the first three results on the first page is not research.

I realize this is a difficult and many faceted subject, but dismissing this information because 'muh google' is not an argument, it's an appeal to google, so is that appeal to popularity, appeal from authority, perhaps genetic fallacy?

I just did a google search for "smallpox cases 2017". The only "hit" that resulted in a direct case was a researcher who accidentally got infected studying it. That was in 1978.

What does that prove? That vaccines work? Does that prove that it's efficacious, or that it eradicated the disease?

You'd think in this always-connected world of smartphones and internet connections there would be an immediate alarm and flow of news stories if it were on the loose again.

I did the same search for polio, and only turned up a few cases in the Democratic Republic of the Congo in Africa, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Not particularly countries that have effective resources to combat such a disease.

Have you searched for what I pointed out? That polio was reclassified? There's numerous resources, that are still coming out on this, polio was reclassified, smallpox was eradicated by sanitation and improvements in living conditions, vaccines cause outbreaks of disease and the population was never vaccinated in such a way that vaccines could ever take credit for eliminating it. The same for mumps. Vaccines have caused more disease and death than the supposed things that they were fighting, and this is going on today with mumps still causing more deaths than the disease would. There has never been one safety study done on a specific vaccine, there have been statistical studies but not one study exemplifying why and how the vaccine is safe. There have never been any efficacy studies done on vaccines either. There have been libraries of research on vaccines, guess how many anti-vaccines ever went pro vaccine? There have been numerous virologists and people that were working actively to develop vaccines that had and continue to switch sides. For that matter of fact there have been hundreds of murders of microbiologists since 2001, while data like this still exemplifies why and how vaccines cannot work:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4160575/

It's apt as you're putting up strawmen of my "emotionally invested" self, when this study is "Not for the faint hearted".

A serious consequence of these facts is that an antibody against a defined antigen, e.g., a whole purified protein or a peptide, could bind to structurally related antigens that have a completely or partially different amino sequence (molecular mimicry). This means that, predicting an antibody has high affinity for the immunizing antigen is extremely difficult if not impossible.

It's got nothing to do with believing.

There is much that the blind cannot see.

Polio has not been eradicated. It is unfortunate that you do not know this. It is unfortunate that you are so intransigent to knowledge which you do not have.

Iron lungs have been replaced by other technology.

It is well

And let us not forget Nobel prize winning virologist Dr Luc Montagnier who said "there is a link between vaccines and autism".

It's all about the money...

Very well said. Glad that you pointed out the fact that many doctors really think vaccines are good for chikdren because this is what they were told. They should probably be smarter than that and think with their own heads, but after all, they are only humans and believe what they are told, just like the rest of us.

apparently society always engenders marginalized people, in your case it is on vaccination

I'm genuinely curious about the idea that "everyone says that formula is best"? Where are you hearing that? I have done a lot of work with breast milk advocacy. I have never heard anyone advocate formula as a superior product to breast milk. I think some people think that the "breast is best" message has gone to far, but even those people don't think formula is superior.

Part of the feeling that there is a "dangerous growing divide" is when we start to dehumanize the other side - the people who vaccinate hate breastfeeding and only feed their kids bacon from pigs raised in terrible conditions while allowing them to place first-person shooter games starting at age 2.

Great post @samstonehill!

The media has done a real good job at making this issue so divisive and trying to shut down the discussion.
But thank you for speaking out about it.

If our food wasn't so corrupted we might be healthier. Now, even if our food seems 'healthy' it really isn't unless you are off grid and not close to other farmers who don't care. We pray over our meals because we can trust God. Good research. upvoted and following for more good steems.

The problem you raised is very tricky. As a parent I am completely out of the situation. The pediatrician says in a way, other doctors say otherwise. In the press he heard all kinds of variants. I do not know anymore either. Personally, I preferred to vaccinate my child on the "Better safe than sorry" principle!

You made the right call not to vaccinate. It seems half the population are a lost cause, shapeshifting into Agent Smith when triggered!

I am actually a non vaccinated child. I really enjoyed reading this because it is a tough subject. I remember when I was young my mom really had struggles and a lot of judgement with this. I remember one time there were even some parents when they found out I was not getting my grade 5 vaccines would be angry and not want their kids to hang out with me. Everyone in the school lined up and I didn't, I was so little I didn't know what to say to anyone...

So I did get a few when I was a baby, but what happened was my mom asked the doctor what was in it exactly and no one could tell her. Like... no one knew! They could not tell her what they were putting into her kid, a vaccine sure...but what was it? So she told them not to do it and that is how it started for her.

I am now 31, alive, healthy and in a lot of ways healthier then the average person. I rarely get sick, when everyone gets the flu I don't. I couldn't tell you if that is directly because of the vaccine situation though but it is interesting.

Thanks again for the interesting post! Def up voted and followed :)

Cheers!

Thanks Samstonehill, you seem to write all the posts that I don't have time for! Vaccination is a crime against humanity.

  ·  8 years ago Reveal Comment

Hello, my name is Gloria and I am Baah's caretaker this weekend.

I think it's great that my little prince of the baahamas has taken an interest in this topic, it's one that should be very close to his heart.

Baah has been injured with autism due to a bad batch of the varicella vaccine and as such struggles with a few things like interacting with other people.

Please remember this when speaking with him, after all he is my little genius.

  ·  8 years ago Reveal Comment

Language!

Or because there are people who cannot get vaccinated due to autoimmune disorders or cancers like leukemia? Additionally, the immunity that is given by vaccines (as does all immunity) tend to diminish over time (think shingles)

Not all immunity tends to diminish, in fact natural immunity is far more resilient than vaccines, while vaccines don't protect those that have leukemia because they could very well infect them when they shed.

You have 0 reasons to believe this, and it is highly unlikely that is the case.

You have zero reasons to back up this claim.

Also, wtf is this, are you comparing vaccinations to the Holocaust?

Are you illiterate or struggling with comprehending what you read, or why can you not make sense of the message "don't resort to hate, it's a control mechanism"?

Except you and all the other people spouting this bullshit, right? You seem to believe that everyone else has been either brainwashed or bribed.

Actually questioning you was very interesting, you made numerous claims and didn't back any of them up, you cried opinion because PBS, and instead of making one argument you resorted to numerous character attacks and denials.

We are researching vaccines, and that research shows that the vast majority (especially those for children) of vaccines are safe

Yeah, that's research "the vast majority". Too bad not one person has provided a safety study for one vaccine yet.

If you are against vaccination, that's fine. But please, withdraw yourself from society. You only put others (especially those who have legitimate medical reasons for not getting vaccinated) at risk for your stupid behavior.

If they have legitimate medial reason for not getting vaccinated they should stay away from society themselves, as vaccinated people shed.

  ·  8 years ago Reveal Comment

No, that's a question for you.

The question was answered at length: You have no way of demonstrating it's an opinion from the statement, and you have yet to demonstrate that it's an opinion regardless of the numerous times you claimed it is.

  ·  8 years ago Reveal Comment
  ·  8 years ago (edited)

lol you still can't tell the difference between fact and opinion

Actually I raised the question, can you demonstrate that it's an opinion, you have asked me the question again, and I said that you cannot determine if its opinion from the statement itself, and that is still true regardless of your nonsense ridicule, which again doesn't have any reason or logic behind it, you can claim it's an opinion but you cannot demonstrate it.

The other issue is that you will likely need to end up getting the disease if you rely on naturally acquired immunity.

You're not making sense here, even if it did, you still have to provide facts to back up your argument, and implying that vaccines will provide better immunity than natural immunity by itself won't make it true.

Natural immunity isn't immune to diminishing, and likewise, vaccine-induced immunity can sometimes be lifelong. Both produce active immunity.

The fact is that you argued vaccination protects people that cannot get vaccines, when people that are vaccinated actively shed the disease and the disease is one of the side effects of vaccines.

You seem to forget that when vaccination was at its height, measles was considered to have been eliminated from the United States.

What was the HIGH at? Do you have research that confirms these claims?

Again, come again.

Baah please pay no attention to him, @lifeworship says he is a bully

and bullies should be ignored. Remember 5th grade?

Cool story bra

Seriously, what is your level of indoctrination? Do you even know what reason is?

These endless appeals from authority, appeals to popularity, and genetic fallacies do not bolster your arguments.

  ·  8 years ago Reveal Comment

Yes, and many other things. Have you been tested for I.Q.?

The truth can no be found by assailing the mental competence of everyone with whom you do not agree. I've tried that method, and while fun, it bares few constructive results.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

You just argued that vaccinations help people that cannot be vaccinated, regardless that these people shed the disease after vaccination for a long time in some cases, and that vaccination has never been implemented in such a way as to be considered efficient since the population is hardly vaccinated in such rates and the vaccines immunity is diminished in a couple years, with it being entirely compromised after 3-4 years.

You've asked me repeatedly what education level I had, and attacked my character and others, and haven't bothered to back up any of your claims, the last exchange we had is there for everyone interested. The level of insensitivity and cruelty you displayed, the denial of the implications of the study I provided, the numerous times you were offered chances to back up your claims and instead passed on that, reassuring us that your claims are backed up by such and such, but never providing one specific as to why and how are all there in the last conversation on this subject between us. The strawman of "can you determine from the statement itself if it's a fact or an opinion" is the same evasive maneuver you attempted in the past, come again, when you want to discuss the subject, when you can be bothered to cite your claims.

I'm a father of four and our children were vaccinated. My wife declined any shot that wasn't mandatory but we were uneducated on the subject of vaccination. Over the years we start to learn more and regreted ever letting them get the shots! No dout after reading this article I feel like a failed father in protecting my children, I'm sure I'm not alone! Congrats on staying strong and raising a Beautiful child!!

In the U.S.A. vaccinations are not only being pushed into law as mandatory, the pharmaceutical companies are even immune to being sued for harm.

This has recently (as in the last decade) been a delicate subject with one side gaining larger and larger voice against the idea of vaccination.

I choose not the believe that Edward Jenner and Jonas Salk created what is a life saver at the time when smallpox and polio hit hardest for profit. Of course there is no way to prove that. But I can't see how one can demonize a Saint like Salk when he clearly gave away his right to be a billionaire Big Pharma winner by not patenting his invention.

I'd say vaccines like almost all other invention and discovery are made with good intentions. But where good things are, bad people follow. It's easy to put Big Pharma as The Enemy (and they clearly aren't good people either, just look at Martin Shrekeli. He is an idiot, But imagine how much more harm the smart ones are doing). But to "fight" against them is hard, not when they've already got such a grip on civilization.

@samstonehill I know you did the right thing by not only not vaccinate your child artificially but going the full extreme. You clearly know what you're doing and I'm interested to learn more from what to you know. The lifestyle that he lived already guarantees he has way above average immune system then his peer and maybe even some adults.

The danger however is when parents half-ass their conviction. You know, the typical idiot moms that jump the anti-vaccine bandwagon by doing no research, refuse to have their children shot, and them put them through an unhealthy unnatural life in a plastic suburbs. Feeding them fast foods and letting them play ipads without ever touching mud or seeing the sun.

These parents set their kids to fail in the worst way possible. And though we can't see the repercussions now, my guess is that in the next decades we will start seeing teens and adults that will speak up against the "atrocities" idiot moms have made on childrens. It will be nice to see how future data reflects the rise of deadly epidemics simply because of parents not knowing how to do things right, and then humanity can learn from it.

One cannot "blame" an entity that solely exist to make profit for their investors without regard to the people. The same way one can't blame a butcher for not keeping the animals alive.

What we can do however, is to truly truly understand what's going on. How human anatomy works, how often times ancient eastern teachings are actually better than western scientific advances and how we can take the best of both worlds to improve our lives.

The idea that there are only two choices is a false dilemma that many fall into. If you are being offered only two choices, neither one is usually the answer.

The question is not 'to vaccinate or not to vaccinate.'

As we live in a universe where time is not static, new inventions are possible, and extant. Vaccinations, good or bad, are obsolete as the buggy whip.

I fully agree with that. in the context of Vaccination, the "hard choice" is a fabricated one exists to only push agendas for profit - on both sides.

Life and nature is dynamic and never binary.

Life and nature also favours those who do things right. And because i know this truth i live everyday asking myself "What can i do that is right and what have i don wrong that can be righted." I hope this principle among others guide me on a correct path. if ever i am wrong or there is a better option, I am more than willing to listen.

Take a look and see what you think of this.
http://www.bobbeck.com/pdfs/beck-protocol-handbook.pdf

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  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Excellent post. Although I have recently started expressing some of my thoughts on vaccines on Steemit, I fear I would be met with a similar response to yourself if I did so on Facebook.
I completely agree, people seem to feel strongly on this topic there really doesn't seem like there can be a middle ground.
Personally I think parents should have the ultimate choice over whether to vaccinate or not so forced vaccination, which is becoming ever more common really distresses me.
I feel lucky to live in the UK, where at the moment there are no penalties for not vaccinating, however I fear even our days are numbered for this.
Thanks for your post, upvoted and followed.

I used to wear a "white coat" and with the direction of "mandatory" vaccines and treatments I left the profession. When something becomes mandatory is immediately becomes suspect.

@samstonehill, this is yet again a freaking fantastic write up regarding vaccinations..

I am absolutely still gob smacked to see how many intellectual minds are presently hovering around inside of the #steemit platform. Especially minds like yours and mine and many of the people who commented on this post of yours. I just love it to be able to be apart of all this!

Such inspirational articles, thank you once again for taking the time to compile this for all of us. I have upvoted and re-steemed xoxo

lots of love,
@mysticlilly16

Anti-Vaxxers make me sick

Maybe you need more vaccines. Please, take mine too.

Usually when I feel sick from ignorance I do research until I understand the subject better.

Maybe you can't realize a quality joke :)

Probably.

I agree with you my friend 100%. Up Have a wonderful time ;)))

Good job man. I have 3 children who have not only never been vaccinated but also never taken any kind of western medicine ever.
They are VERY healthy. There are MANY factors to their health, on the top of that list is endless amounts of breastmilk for years of their life, not just a few weeks. Also eating hoe grown super foods, fresh air, sun and more.
I could write a book on it....Oh wait I already have hahahaha
Just wanted to show my support and provide an EXPERT testimonial to your conclusions here.
Keep up the great work, most important of which is the health and happiness of your family.
Bless~*~