Ladies and Gentlemen,
It's not just us here scratching our heads about 'Mark Zuckerberg' and his 'Harvard' commencement speech calling for a "Universal Income".
Mark Dice give him an absolute roasting for it!
Thank you Mark.
SirKnight.
Link to previous post
https://steemit.com/politics/@sirknight/zuckerberg-raving-mad-wants-universal-basic-income
Tagging the contributors to the last post... @veerall; @cheekybuggy; @amberyooper; @bitcoinsky; @ lifeworthship; @maxprophet; @cryto-investor; @thatgermandude;
Gotta love Mark Dice!!! This Mark Zuckerberg guy is a complete idiot! He was really "lucky" by stealing others ideas and working with "the system" and being another cocky, know it all puppet...
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Agreed - the system is protecting their wealth for them.
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This is a ridiculous idea, I live in the UK where we already have an overstretched benefit system that pays people to sit on their ass, some are unable to work and do genuinely need it but most are just freeloaders and will not go to work because they earn more in benefits.
If this were to be introduced many people will not see the point in working and the people who do work will not want to pay for the freeloaders that can't be bothered. It is a stupid idea ZUCKERBERG SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!
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Are there decent paying jobs available for those people that you're talking about? Or is it like here in the U. S. where so many of the jobs that are available are part time minimum wage jobs that won't even pay the rent?
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It's the same and that is a huge part of the problem, they get paid more through benefits than they can earn through working (especially if they have been out of work for a long time or have a lack of skills), therefore there is no incentive for them to go and work.
The minimum wage has been rising in the UK but so has inflation which cancels it out.
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A universal income is kind of an inevitability in a future where automation has replaced most of our jobs. I'm usually not a fan of Zuck, but he does have a vision of the likely socioeconomic future. also this roast is really just another angry conservative yelling at a video without raising a real counterpoint.
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Hi darkshadow - you will find that 'similar talk' of universal income would have taken place and ancient Greece and Rome, throughout the industrial Revolution, in England in the 19th Century, Russia in the 20th. The problem we have is that corporations are too big, having been inflated by government subsidies and protection and low interest rates. If corporate size (particularly the banks) and government intervention were limited and the printing of currency abolished there would be jobs for everyone, regardless of automation.
As for Mark Dice - he has plenty counterpoints but you need to watch re videos. So too does Paul Joseph Watson - he criticises European Immigration and does provide plenty of solutions for it - but the left won't listen.
Thanks for posting.
SK.
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@sirknight Name one job that a highly sophisticated AI/Robot in the future won't be able to do better and faster than a human? Everyone from Construction workers to Programmers can and likely will be replaced by machines that don't need sleep or salaries. It's still hopefully a long way off, but it's not inconceivable.
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Plumber, electrician, nurse, carpenter, massage therapist, doctor, prostitute, football coach, welder, teacher, psychologist, waiter, entertainer, musician, author, movie director, concreter and anything else that takes an ounce of creativity and human compassion or ingenuity. SK.
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Yeah I mean... it does make sense. The evidence goes against people's claim that 'everybody will just stop working and get high every day'. Quite the opposite in fact.
Switzerland as a country had a vote for it, and although they decided no, they obviously felt to some degree ready for it. It's just a matter of years before one of those European nations goes through with it.
Happiness and stability creates low turnover, high work satisfaction, high productivity, less suicide, less depression, less hospital fees, and so on... although we'll never know for sure its effects until somebody actually does it
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Hi mobbs, thanks for the reply. I think there is enough evidence to show that socialism does not work - and universal income is simply socialism. And doesn't happiness come from an improving life - how can your life improve under a 'universal income' system - it can't. It will go backwards . SK.
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It seems like that would be the case, but the evidence goes the other way.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/2017/0301/Guaranteed-paycheck-Does-a-basic-income-encourage-laziness
I mean, it's not actually socialism. People often demonize socialism, like currently in the UK with Corbyn becoming prime minister, Bernie Sanders as President, but that's not what they are doing. They take socialist values that work best in a democratic society - Health care, education, higher minimum living standards. I think in a thriving society, a minimum living standard that is higher than 'homeless and might as well be dead', is only going to encourage people to go higher. They are in a position of security and can focus more on goals and ambition rather than selling things off to pay for food for their kid. And this is exactly what people tend to do.
Along with the evidence above, anecdotally, my sister, who has struggled to survive most her life but now, diagnosed with a health disorder, has a more sustainable amount of welfare money. What happened next? She looked for volunteer work first, then she went to college and now she's preparing to either work full time in pharmaceuticals or go to University to study medicine and neuroscience of some sort. She could never do that if she stays asleep 14 hours a day because it helps her feel less hungry when she has no money for food.
It's probably the case that we aren't ready for it just yet, even America and Switzerland, but I think it's an inevitable part of societal progression. Zuckerberg is just thinking ahead
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I am confused by your second sentence re the prime minister and president.
Setting this aside, I appreciate what you are saying mobbs and the personal example gave. However in the end someone else is paying for me - and this is socialism. So let me now quoting another UK Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher in saying...
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
SK.
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Yeah it's a famous quote. But again, it's not really socialism in any way that we don't already live. That's what tax is. We pool money together via tax and it goes towards what we need. This idea is just pushing that idea a little further when we are wealthy enough. We already have welfare, for example.
By UK prime minister, I mean, Jeremy Corbyn who is campaigning to be prime minister currently, is always 'accused' of being a socialist, because he wants things like 'free education', 'improve the national health service' 'more police on the streets', 'higher minimum wage'. It's simply making better use of the tax being paid already, it's not forcing everybody to convert to communism.
Anyway, I see a lot needs to be ironed out with the idea too, so I guess only time will tell. Good discussion!
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There is already enough tax money coming into the system in the U.S. to be able to pay for a universal basic income for people here. All we have to do is refocus the money away from killing civilians in the Middle East to helping people here at home.
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i hate suckerburg
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I'm not sure if there are hidden intentions behind this kind of remark (there usually are), but UBI certainly sounds a lot better than the idea that people need to earn their living when the means of production are not easily available to anyone who needs them. I don't think UBI will be enough to stabilize the situation though, we need to create a culture where cooperation is valued more than competition and make sure people like Zucks are included in that. There need to be incentives against extreme hording. Of course a lot of people still think that's impossible, but lot's of things seem impossible until they don't.
There is still a lot I don't know, but I cannot, for the life of me, conceive of a long-term self-sustainable plan for the human race in which the stock market and freedom coexist indefinitely.
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I still need some time, I wanna make a big post about this topic. Just to be clear I don give a fudge about Mark.
Just prepare your body: one of your founding fathers was the inventor of the idea of unconditioned basic income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine
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Bring it on TGD. 😎
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