I have a very simple approach to IP, I don't believe in it. It's just that simple. I have a very simple approach to
property rights:
- If you can't own your property without using aggressive violence, then it should not be your property
Or it other words only defensive violence is allowed. And we must be careful with the term "defense", because defense in the USA means conducting military drills 100 meters from the Russian border. So the term "defense" has to be re-analyzed.
Copyright
In copyright this could be applied easily, since digital information is not unique, it can be copied infinite times (CTRL+C,CTRL+V), and it can't be contained, since the internet is very public, therefore you can only have have property of a digital information if:
- It's kept completely secret, so it's not published (like a password or private key)
- If you actively aggress against anyone who violates your claim over that property
And I think the second part is outrageous. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying people should ignore it, don't do that, because the Government will come after you if you do.
I don't ignore copyright laws simply because I know that the Government will use violence against me, so even if you don't believe in the principle you must still obey the laws because otherwise you expose yourself to huge problems.
But there is also an element of respect there. For example if there would be no copyright, and somebody were to write a book, and you were to copy that book, change the cover and sell it as your own, it would be a very dick move. The author put a lot of work into that book so it's very disrespectful to just do that.
So if there would be no copyright laws, people would still have to respect other people. I mean just because you are on an island with 2 women, that doesn't mean you have the right to rape them, just because there is no police around. People have to respect eachother, respect is better than force, and might doesn't make right.
So I believe copyright laws should be abolished, but I still believe people should be respectful to content creators afterwards, just out of respect for the work, not because the Government compels people.
Patents
Patents are just horrible, I think they should just be abolished immediately. It destroys innovation.
Just look at what is happening in the Blockchain, scumbags are basically patenting 2-3 lines of code, and then nobody can use that code in their software without big royalty fees.
So Satoshi started an avalanche of innovation and scumbags are basically halting it with their big fees. Even a small fee for an indie project can be devastating.
So Patents should absolutely not exist in a free society.
Trade Secret
Trade secrets are OK, however people should just keep them secret. I mean why do you need the Government to protect your TS if you can just keep it a secret? And if it’s leaked then just hold the person who leaked it accountable.
Like for example your Investment Strategy could be a trade secret. Fine. Then just keep it secret, and then you can just sell it to people you trust who won't publicize it, if you want.
Trademark
Trademarks are a bit tricky. I mean sure claiming a monopoly over a word is bad, however I am a bit undecided here, because this could also lead to impersonations, and that could lead to scams.
I mean if the "Steemit" website would not be trademarked, then people would just copy paste it, create their own, and most likely setup phishing websites that look like Steemit, just to steal your password.
So the link "steemit.com" is unique in the DNS system, so it has to be unique in the Trademark system as well.
So I agree with the Trademark concept, although I think it should still not be violently enforced, but like with software codes, the way the DNS system made web addresses unique.
Industrial Design Right
It's like a mixture of copyright and patents, and I don't think there should be a monopoly here. Although again, there could be a lot of work in a design, so I don't think it's respectable to copy one and claim ownership over it.
At best case scenario the author of such design should be highly attributed, but other than that, if they really want to keep their design secret, then just don't share it. Use your own 3D printer to design and create stuff without other's knowing it.
Sources:
https://pixabay.com
I pretty much agree with what you said.
Two things we ALWAYS need to keep in mind.
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best I understand cro-magnon looked like joe the plumber (or doctor, or engineer or dentist)...cromagnons were indistingishable from modern humans...we haven't changed in the last quarter million years.
We change our environment to suit US...it doesn't change US.
and I wasn't referring to violence.
There are two kinds of people in the world.
there is US.
and there is THEM.
Dunbar's number is the differentiation.
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Well to me "THEM" are the people who would use violence against others.
So "US" to me are the good people who understood the principles or non agression.
When "US" becomes 95% of humanity, then "THEM" would only be a small percent of violent criminals who would just be segregated away from society, and "US" would live freely.
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nope..
US...is that number of people you can visualize, in your head...as a real person. You can see them in your mind...you might know how the 'feel'...personal info about them.."how's the wife and kids..'..and stuff. They're real people.
You can do that to 'about' 150(ish) people. Like anything it's a Bell curve.
Beyond that number it's THEM.
you can't help it...your brain is hardwired or maybe it doesn't have enough ram.
but the rules change at the US/THEM interface..THEM are not REALLY people...
you have no empathy with a statistic somewhere you've never been or seen.
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You still haven't demonstrated why can't I care for people, just on a different level?
Yes I agree that the more unknonw a person is the less you care about them, but you are saying basically that I can only care for on average 150 people maybe a few more like 1000?
Well that is simple false. I think there are different degrees of care.
Like I care very much about my wife and my immediate family. My brother is very dear to me an my cousin too.
Ok so I might to things for them, that I might not do for a stranger on the street.
But that doesn't mean I dont' care for that person, it's just that I don't care to the same degree.
You have to understand people form groups, and some groups are bigger than other, and become more indirect, but that doesn't mean that people in a large group can't have the same big goals.
Like for example almost every person on the planet agrees, that air pollution is bad, so people could be working to reduce that.
Now how would that be organized? Well here you are right, probably in small packs 150-1000 people in a community drawing out a plan for their own community.
But that doesn't mean that people beyond the community doesn't have the same goal.
Groups could be allies too, not just people, perhaps more indirectly, but still, it's a form of care.
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I'm saying that psychologists have run lab experiments.
they come up with that number after hundreds of tests.
people can 'grasp''...a certain number of people
beyond that they cannot.
that number, as everything else...is a variable for different individuals..as graphed by the bell curve.
I'm an extreme introvert...my inner social groups can be counted on my fingers..
some people might count theirs in the thousands..
the principle still appllies.
if it's US..or THEM...
I'll chose us any day.
fuck them.
which brings to mind the solution to all violence..(or most)
a culture of abundance.
if there's more than enough to go around..
no fighting.
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You don't understand, I wasn't referring to people's immediate allies.
I was saying that people could care about others, just on a different degree.
I am disagreein with you on the fact that "care" must always be strong.
I am saying "care" is relative. Like if you buy a house for your kid, that is big care. If you invent a technology that can help save a 3rld world child's life, that is also "care", just on a different level, more indirect, but still it's care.
You don't need to know people directly to have care for them.
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Too bad physics exists.
And belief.
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You just said you consider
"everyone who would use violence" as them. You also consider government a form of violence. Most people support having government, so you have basically stated you consider most people in the world to be "them."
You are a perfect demonstration of what @everittdmickey is talking about.
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I don't think most people support government ,I think they dont know what they want.
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I can't believe I'm agreeing with you!
Now if I could just get you to see that Republicans have used that fact to make you think liberals are evil. :)
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So what you're saying is that in another 45,000 years we'll be a little closer to being a species that can actually live under your belief system?
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No I haven't said that. What I said is that humans are not static, they evolve over time.
So this Dunbar's number is not true. In fact the evolution in human thought will be quicker than you might realize.
Technology is a big enhancement factor, but also social progress is another.
Plus you have this transhumanist movement as well.
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You reference Cro-Magnon to show how far we've evolved. They existed 45,000 years ago... and here we are still blowing each other up.
Technology is not evolution, nor is social progress.
In fact, I'd argue that technology stunts evolution and social progress is essentially government forcing people to behave in a more evolved manner.
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Oh really? I look out the window I see no terrorist outside, do you?
You can't compare the entirety of humanity to a few lunatic crazy people.
Just look how far we evolved, only 10 years ago, the banning of spanking would have been considered outrageous.
Yet here we are and countries like France have just banned it and many countries follow.
It took a long time realizing that hurting children is not ok, but we got there.
The Cro-Magnon didn't just beat his kid, but he probably ate it.
There is strong evidence indicating that early humans ate their babies.
How many people do you know that do that today?
I would call that massive evolution.
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excellent post keep it up....
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I'm with you on this one... pretty much all the way!
i usually boil it down to "ideas cannot belong to anyone indivudual, much less a corporation" and imho all the different forms of legal definitions of owning IP are just there to protect economic interests, and this creates an obstacle for progress. We need "free ideas applied freely" to move forward!
Now I don't mean to say this legitimises infringement or plagiarism of other people's work. I am talking about the application of ideas and concepts.
And when we see that nowadays you can patent genes and "own" a life-form... sigh it's clear we need to rethink how these issues are dealt with in today's economy!
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Yes, don't get me wrong I am not a communist, I am pro-private property. Just not in the form it is presented to us.
Because the current form, automatically requires a government, and I don't want that. I think capitalism works without a government too.
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you can hold what you can grasp..don't bite off more than you can chew.
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this!
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yeah... don't get me wrong either... I am also not speaking against actual real property, as in things that are owned by people.
It's just about ideas... and I don't see where not owning an idea would end up in communism.
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Well non-ownership is like common ownership, which is what the communists want.
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I am not sure about non-ownership being the same as common ownership.
In case of physical goods, yeah, If everyone is to get their equal share, nobody can own the whole.
This is different in the non physical realm. An idea could be fully owned by everyone individually without taking anything. So, for ideas, something like common ownership is well possible without including aspects of non-ownership at all.
Now I didn't read any communist implications in your original post, nor did I mean to imply anything of that sort in my own statement.
What it boils down to is that we have to find a way of treating intellectual property differently than physical property.
Maybe we are going off on a tangent here... (good!)
Physical property can have ownership, Intellectual property only has a source... something along those lines. Your statements around copyright, patents and design rights did appeal very much to my point of view here.
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It's the same philosophically.
Yes intellectual property is different than physical property, since matter is finite, while thoughts are perhaps more abundant if not infinite.
So it's a matter of scarcity.
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yeah... that's a great bottom line!
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How can it when anyone could just steal another's ideas and profit off them, thus eliminating the chance to profit off your own idea?
As an example some Australian Students reverse engineered a drug which can treat Malaria and HIV.
What entity is going to spend millions researching a drug like that only to have someone reverse engineer it and undercut their prices so they never make a profit?
Of course, the current system kinda sucks too because the inventor can price gouge... but that's the thing: There's no simple answer here.
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So what, if they dont want their ideas stealed, then don't publish them. Otherwise it's already public information.
But so what if they profit from them, I mean free information is alrady free, so why would people pay money for that if it's already free?
Best example is the GPL license, it allows you to sell the softwares, but nobody will buy it because you can just get it for free.
I already explained this: Crowdfunding.
Why do you think important research should be behind closed doors? Why can't a community crowdfund a medical project and make it free and transparent?
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You said there would be more innovation without IP laws, now you're saying that people won't publish or use their ideas because they'd be stolen.
Which is it? There's no innovation if everything just stays in their own head, and there's no progress if Disney just freely steals everyone's ideas rather than at least buying them.
It's hilarious you're saying that on a platform whose main draw is that people can profit from sharing their ideas.
Yes, and most of it sucks and the software companies that do it seriously sell support for the product.
Great, we'll get zillions of dollars of research into boner pills and nothing for HIV because, after all, that only happens to sinful people.
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Man it's really a pain in the ass to argue with you, no offence.
You are constantly twisting my arguments and putting words in my mouth, or you don't understand what I am talking about.
I didnt said that. I said that people who want to
profitfrom their IP, should keep their secret. Like keeping an investment strategy secret, or an indistrial design....I say that making things public, and therefore, publicly useable without IP laws hindering progress, will make innovation faster, because everyone will have access to the latest technology for free.
So if you want to keep stuff for yourself, then don't publish it, otherwise you must assume that somebody somewhere will copy it, adapt it, or use it for their own benefit.
Linux systems and softwares work perfectly. Most of them rely on donations or selling merchandise.
But I would imagine at some point somebody would create a cryptocurrency that would fund these projects. I am surprized people haven't done this already.
That's ridiculous. If HIV is a real threat in 3lrd world, then they should fund the research. The 3lrd world will become rich eventually after the tech improves life conditions there ,and then maybe HIV won't even be a problem after that.
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How do you use an industrial process without letting other people know about it?
And you can complain I'm "twisting your words" but nowhere did you limit your thoughts to industrial processes. Without that we could be talking about anything, like books, reverse engineering drugs, etc. The fact is anything you use is out there. I'm starting a company, we have a patent and we still need to be careful when we're pitching to investors in case anyone decides they can steal our idea because we can't actually afford to defend the patent.
You can't use an idea and keep it private, it just doesn't work that way.
Define perfectly? They may work well (sorry, computer programmer here and nothing is bug free) but especially in the linux world the UI is so crap only highly technical people can use it. I gave up on linux when I had to compile my own video card driver... it just wasn't worth the effort.
Red Hat is who I was thinking of when I claimed they make their money on support. If other distros are making money through merch... well, there's a reason Bill Gates is worth billions but few people have ever heard of Ubuntu.
Do you mean 3rd world? Or is "3lrd world" something else?
Medical research is not something done in basements. It's something done with highly advanced research equipment that creates a barrier to entry.
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This is excellent, really great posts. Upvoted and followed!
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Impersonating a brand is acting fraudulently against your customer.
Still no business of the brand you've appropriated, as they're not party to the transaction.
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So? Customers aren't going to care if the price is lower and the quality the same.
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That's right. It's between the customer, and the bootlegger. If the bootlegger fraudulently sells a brand name which isn't legit, then the customer has recourse against the vendor, but that's it.
If you're not involved in that transaction, it has nothing to do with you.
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Well he would be causing financial harm to that business that is being impersonated. Because people would associate his scam attempt with that business, potentiall scaring many customers away from the legitimate business too.
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True. Those customers could then pursue him for fraud, until he changes or quits. I imagine those 'customers' would likely include the entity he's impersonating.
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Not just the customer, but the company who is being impersonated as well. The impersonated company loses more, in terms of reputation, than the customers.
Although in the case of a phishing attempt, it could turn out really really bad.
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meep
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Are you sure though? If I go to Thailand and buy a Rollex, either I believe it's a Rolex, and will be disappointed when I take it in to Rolex for a refund when it breaks, or I don't believe it's a real Rolex, in which case their brand is not diminished in my reckoning.
I have grave misgivings about having transactions controlled by parties not involved in those transactions. It causes far more problems than it solves.
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But it is, there is already a problem with China stealing many western innovations and making cheap copies of that, that is the main reason why the USA is in conflict with China in the first place.
So a Chinese person will never know what a "real Rolex" is simple because copycats diminish the image of Rolex in China.
So if he were to get in contact with a real shop that sells real Rolex, he would not buy that because he would think that the brand is crappy, and not recognize that what he bought earlier was a copycat.
Customers think like that. So you might suffer a loss of like 50$ by buying a crappy copycat, but Rolex the firm might suffer billions of $ of losses because of this.
So trademark respect in this case is crucial.
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Well, I do not agree on the patents part.
On my prospective patents are actually the only thing that push innovation.
Innovation is a public good, so it's characterized by the attributes of non-rivalty and non-exclusivity. If so, companies would have no incentive to innovate, in investing in research and development, and the society would simply not evolve.
I think that the problem is another, and you actually touched and pointed it out. Those scumbags that patent something just to block others and get a royalty on it. From a society point of view that don't help anybody and go against innovation and evolution.
In the end, patenting is good, but the mechanism it's not perfect and there are many who take advantage of its flaws.
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That is not true, innovation can be crowd funded, like with ICO's in cryptocurrencies, and DAO's.
Therefore patents are not needed.
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Yeah sure, that makes sense on a society point of view, but not on a firm's POV.
Achieving a competitive advantage means doing something different from competition, if every company has the same knowledge they will be closed to perfect competition, which firm want that?
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Well it's not like they have to livestream their production process, and surveillance is already immoral.
So unless they spy on them or some whistleblower reveals key details about the secrets of the company, I am sure they can have many many advantages over others.
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