Are We Seeing the End of Civilized Debate

I don't want to sound like a codgery old fart here, but I'm just kind of wondering what the hell is going on. We've got our nice little microcosm going on in here, but I'm seeing it all over the place. When powerful people want to spew hate, it's free speech. When marginalized people start speaking up and talking about some shit we maybe ought to consider looking at, it's time to shut it all down.

To start I just want to nip in the bud any idea of this being a left or right issue. I see people all over the spectrum wanting to shut down dissent. The right doesn't want protesters protesting, and the left doesn't want to hear Richard Spencer.

Ok. Let's stop right there with that false equivalency. I swear I don't want to make this about politics, but let's do talk about what is and isn't free speech. And then differentiate from there into debate and (shut the front door!) dialogue.

Free speech applies to your right to speak in a public place. The right to assemble and protest for a redress of grievances. A private entity saying they've no interest in giving Milo a damn microphone could be designated as shutting down debate, but it's not a violation of free speech. Telling people they can't gather together to protest is definitely a violation of free speech. Unless they are inciting violence, and boy is that a tricky spot.

Alas, I don't want to talk about free speech today, even though it's a subject I'm quite passionate about, and I sure as shit don't want to talk about Milo or Richard. I want to talk about debate and dialogue. And I want to talk about people using their power to silence dissent. And when we talk about debate, it's actually important to realize that neo nazis, as an example, are shutting it down while insisting we must allow open debate with them.

How? They don't fucking listen. Ever. And they're never wrong. You can't debate with people who can't communicate how they're feeling or recognize that others have feelings. Seems like the method of communication these days is to point the finger and talk about how wrong you all are. My point here is that the person saying, "I'm not willing to debate you" may not be the only one shutting down the debate. If the other person won't listen, the debate is shut down before it starts. That shit is happening up in here a lot.

I won't listen to you, but you have to listen to every word of my rampage about how wrong you are, and if you don't, you hate free speech and Jesus and eagles and Bambi. Is that right?

However. If a neonazi could come to me and tell me how they're feeling and why they feel that way and express themselves clearly, I could hear that. In fact as a white person I think it's my job to hear that because people of color shouldn't have to mess with it. Can you communicate calmly and clearly why you feel the way you do? Can you present evidence to back that up? Ok. Cool. Now can you hear me while I explain my point of view? You disagree? Ok. We can keep talking or not, but we don't have to talk shit. I'm going to try to change your mind because your position is dangerous to a number of people that I love. Actually dangerous.

Now, this example has holes, and I know that, primarily because hatred of others is almost never based in rational thought, so this debate could never happen. That person, all filled with hate, was once a tiny, precious baby. He was not born that way. I see him as sick and lost. Yes he must be responsible and accountable, but I see it like drug addiction. He's addicted to hatred and anger. Can they be changed? I don't honestly know, but they don't seem open to real debate.

FYI, this is what real debate looks like.

Now let's stop for just a minute and shift to the two topics that I see most of the nasty vitriol around right now. Vaccines and education. Seriously. We have people in this world who want to kill other people because of the color of their skin or who they decide to have sex with, and people can't even talk about vaccines and education without acting like kindergarten.

You can stop and listen to another perspective, read a paper, a journal, an essay, and if you can't, seriously just stfu. If you're unwilling to even listen to another perspective and just dismiss it like an arrogant ass and even worse wield your power like a schoolyard bully, maybe you need to reevaluate how you're spending your days.

When my oldest, who is now 19, was first born and we made the decision, after careful research, to skip vaccines, the conversation went something like this:

"You're not vaccinating?!"
"No."
"That's crazy."
"Well, here's what we learned."
"Hmm. I don't buy that. You should read this."
"Ok. I don't buy that."
"Well, you're crazy."
"Yes, I know you feel that way. That's ok."

Now the conversation goes something more like this:
"You don't vaccinate?!?!?!?!"
"No."
"You're an irresponsible baby killer, and your children should be taken, and you should go to jail!!!!!!"
"Um?"

I stopped talking about it. I haven't written one post about it on here because I'm so sick of people's dogma and assholery. They're completely unwilling to listen or research. They just throw out vague shit about how we don't see Polio anymore and the cdc and my dr says blah. And you can't tell them anything. They know everything. They won't hear of the possibility that some in the medical or pharmaceutical companies could be wrong. I was friends with the daughter of one of the research psychiatrists that developed Prozac. He was devastated when people started killing others and themselves. He wanted them to take far more action than they did. Why is it so hard to accept that vaccines need to be safer?

I'm seeing the same shit with unschooling, which is even more absurd because seriously why do you care how my children are educated? If you're not interested in hearing facts or evidence, just keep your opinions to yourself. I don't want to make rules to shut people down, but seriously have some damn decency. Open your mind. Assume those of us choosing a different life aren't demonic spawn just for a minute. Engage in civilized debate. Ask questions. Offer your own research. Like we do.

Remember how I said it's not left and right? You know how I know that? Because within this community, you see the whole rainbow. I'm about as far left as you can get, but there are plenty of people with similar child rearing values but very different political values, and that's cool. I tell my libertarian friends that I think there are too many assholes for the market to regulate. They think regulations are the end of the world, and that's cool. I see the point. I respect their willingness to put thought in and care enough about their world to actually think about it. And I think they mostly feel the same way. Research, engage, debate, dialogue. Please. But it requires you have an open mind. It requires you be willing to accept the possibility you aren't right about everything. Can you do that? I can. I'm willing to be wrong, especially if it means doing what's best for my child. That's what's needed for open debate and dialogue. I believe it's called acting like a grown up.

All pics from pixabay.