RE: "Spiritual Drugs" Are Bullshit

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"Spiritual Drugs" Are Bullshit

in health •  8 years ago 

Let's not just forget about all the positive outcome some drugs can induce.

Rigorous study hailed as landmark

Using unusually rigorous scientific conditions and measures, Johns Hopkins researchers have shown that the active agent in “sacred mushrooms” can induce mystical/spiritual experiences descriptively identical to spontaneous ones people have reported for centuries.

The resulting experiences apparently prompt positive changes in behavior and attitude that last several months, at least.

...

One third said the experience was the single most spiritually significant of their lifetimes; and more than two-thirds rated it among their five most meaningful and spiritually significant. Griffiths says subjects liken it to the importance of the birth of their first child or the death of a parent.

Two months later, 79 percent of subjects reported moderately or greatly increased well-being or life satisfaction compared with those given a placebo at the same test session. A majority said their mood, attitudes and behaviors had changed for the better. Structured interviews with family members, friends and co-workers generally confirmed the subjects’ remarks. Results of a year-long followup are being readied for publication.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press_releases/2006/07_11_06.html

'Magic Mushrooms' May Permanently Alter Personality

Just one strong dose of hallucinogenic mushrooms can alter a person's personality for more than a year and perhaps permanently, a new study finds.

People given psilocybin, the compound in "magic mushrooms" that causes hallucinations and feelings of transcendence, demonstrated a more "open" personality after their experience, an effect that persisted for at least 14 months. Openness is a psychological term referring to an appreciation for new experiences. People who are more open tend to have broad imaginations and value emotion, art and curiosity.

https://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter-personality-long-term.html

Magic Mushrooms Create a Hyperconnected Brain

The active ingredient in the psychedelic drug, psilocybin, seems to completely disrupt the normal communication networks in the brain, by connecting "brain regions that don't normally talk together," said study co-author Paul Expert, a physicist at King's College London.

https://www.livescience.com/48502-magic-mushrooms-change-brain-networks.html

Magic Mushrooms Can Erase Fear in Mice

The active ingredient in hallucinogenic mushrooms may erase frightening memories and encourage new brain cell growth in mice, a new study suggests.

Mice given an electric shock, then a low-dose of the hallucinogen psilocybin, lost their fearful response to a sound associated with a painful electric shock much more quickly than mice that didn't receive the drug.

https://www.livescience.com/37914-psilocybin-eliminates-traumatic-memories.html

Psilocybin inhibits the processing of negative emotions in the brain

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140507095756.htm

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Here is a take down of your copy-pasta comment posts. You know, for future references as well so you think twice before posting on my wall

How Not To Use Scientific References

These are all studies/statements about magic mushrooms which contain the active substance of psilocybin. I didn't mention them in the article. Completely different from the "spiritual" ones related to LSD and Ayahuasca.

Also many similar studies have also reports of anxiety and panic attacks after taking the drug. In other words, much like modern depressants.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

There are plenty of studies that suggest the positive benefits of LSD as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/05/psychedelic-drugs-like-lsd-could-be-used-to-treat-depression-study-suggests

Psychedelic drugs could prove to be highly effective treatments for depression and alcoholism, according to scientists who have obtained the first brain scans of people under the influence of LSD.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/04/01/lsd-could-make-you-smarter-happier-and-healthier-should-we-all-try-it/?utm_term=.29cf2ef0e7e3

But over the past decade, some scientists have begun to challenge that conclusion. Far from being harmful, they found, hallucinogens can help sick people: They helped alcoholics drink less; terminal patients eased more gently into death. And it’s not just the infirm who are helped by the drugs. Psychedelics can make the healthy healthier, too.

https://www.livescience.com/43894-acid-lsd-therapeutic-value-benefits.html

The LSD experiment is part of a growing trend toward taking certain drugs — long dismissed as "recreational" — more seriously for their therapeutic value. Despite a plethora of federal and state prohibitions against drug-related testing and research, investigators are discovering that many so-called party drugs have real health benefits.

LSD isn't addictive, and unless taken by someone with an existing predisposition towards mental illness, unlikely to do any sort of lasting harm. The demonization of LSD & other psychedelics is pretty laughable when you consider the harm done by legal drugs such as alcohol, pain killers, nicotine, etc.

The post didn't bother about the socializing effects of the drugs since they are subjective and can be bad and good. I rather focused debunking the "spiritual" claims which are bullshit with no scientific evidence to support them.

kind reminder that even alcohol can be observed to have the same effects and most people are not alchoholics.

What you're fundamentally arguing against is spirituality is a concept, not whether or not hallucinogenics can induce spiritual experiences. Nothing 'spiritual' can be proven objectively.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I am arguing that both are bullshit.

very harsh terminology. short-sighted, even.

not short-sighted, just not taking into account experiences despite his/her own

you can argue this but these are philosophical questions that are quite frankly unable to be answered

read this and spare me the drama

How Not To Use Scientific References

Psilocybin mushroom are in the same family compound (tryptamines) as LSD and DMT the active compound of ayahusca. They act on the same neuro-transmitter and have been reported to induce similar experience.

The family includes neurotransmitter serotonin (5-hydroxy tryptamine) and hallucinogenic/psychedelic drugs such as LSD, Psilocybin (magic mushrooms) - both widely-used, and other, less common, synthetic drugs such as dimethyl-tryptamine (DMT).

Other than the duration of the experience, the effects of psilocybin are similar to comparable dosages of LSD or mescaline. However, in the Psychedelics Encyclopedia, author Peter Stafford noted, "The psilocybin experience seems to be warmer, not as forceful and less isolating. It tends to build connections between people, who are generally much more in communication than when they use LSD."[22]

Diagram detailing the biosynthesis of psilocybin from tryptophan

Spare me the wikipedia copy-pasta. We are in the same family as Apes but we are not the same thing. LSD and ayahusca create much stronger effects that can cause many problems.

Also, all experiences are reported from junkies who self-affirm each other about the effects. No way to get an objective valuation. I can tell you about the positive effects of alcohol of cigarettes but it won't make any sense since they both can make you warmer and socialize or they can make you start drinking by yourself and die.

Again. bullshit conclusions since they fluctuate equally on both sides of the spectrum. And again. The point of the article was about the non-existence of spiritual claims — not trying to save the day by using political allegory that it can have "some good experience".

Once again you are being intellectually dishonest.

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." Alberto Brandolini

I'm not even going to bother.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Again dancing/cashing boy. The same quote copy-pasted everywhere doesn't cut it.

You claim to spend 10 hours on each post just to convince others to vote for you so you can make money here and you are talking about bullshit? You make the same circulating bullshit stat-posts about steemit and you trying to tell me that I am bullshiting?

Boy, you are the king of bullshit.

What you said was wrong. That's what I meant.

The quote is from wikipedia but quoting a encyclopedia.

Also, all experiences are reported from junkies who self-affirm each other about the effects.

That's not true. If you were to read more about the study from John Hopkin then you would realize the the spiritual experience people talked about was called as such determined by fixed criteria prior to the trip and corresponding to a scale.

The point of the article was about the non-existence of spiritual claims

So that's also wrong.

You claim to spend 10 hours on each post just to convince others to vote for you

Wrong again I said I spend more than 10 hours on most of my posts. If I said something else then it is my mistake.

I hope people can realize how off you're coming for no goog reason. I know I could be wrong and be the one that is coming off. I doubt you would ever acknowledge such a thing.

As always, I expect a pretty angry answer or something distorting reality without showing much care about the person on the other side.

Take care my friend.

That's not true. If you were to read more about the study from John Hopkin then you would realize the the spiritual experience people talked about was called as such determined by fixed criteria prior to the trip and corresponding to a scale.

No way to double check this. This is why most psychological and social studies are bullshit. With interviews humans can make up anything they want. It is not like those people did not had the drug before. They interviewed people that already took the drug and most likely already shared experiences. There is no way to double blind it — hence no real science. no falsifiability.

So that's also wrong.

Well, you gave zero arguments on that. This is after all why you chose to be intellectual dishonest and post about irrelevant "good things" about these drugs which btw hold no statistical significance than a placebo reaction or having a pet.

Wrong again I said I spend more than 10 hours on most of my posts. If I said something else then it is my mistake.

Bullshit. 90% of your posts are the same things repeated over and over again in a cheap superficial and shallow pseudo-positivism that is rather nauseating. Yey, dan, yey i made money, yey look me dance, yey look at my stats --> pay me.

Even the profile picture looks business fake. It is as if someone handed you steem power (which they did) told you to look professional so you could excuse your role in here. You self interviewed yourself and self hired through delegation? please...

I hope people can realize how off you're coming for no goog reason. I know I could be wrong and be the one that is coming off. I doubt you would ever acknowledge such a thing.

I come off wrong? You see that following? Thats real following that started from ZERO telling things like they are and not because I happened to be favored by a whale that agrees with my views on specific issues. Do you know what nepotism is? Google it.

As always, I expect a pretty angry answer or something distorting reality without showing much care about the person on the other side.

Angry? Why should I get angry about anything you say or do? You give too much credit to yourself. Just don't try to sell bullshit to me. You can be a cheap car salesman on your profile while enjoying fake comments underneath. Not on my profile mate.

Take care my friend.

you don't really mean that. Again you are being business politically correct.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

my 2nd upvote , thanks for the :), my upvote was intended for @teamsteem , although i find counterpoints to be of great value! I just got here and I can already feel the steam! I hope this is a Flawless machine, it's going to be tested.

Lets not! Thank you :)

Now that's some bullshit. Just because it has some "good" or "positive" outcomes, doesn't diminish the real negative outcomes as well.

I'm sorry, but I can't see this repply, and that science research, as otherwise than a bland excuse to take drugs and believe that "it's not that bad for you" :/

here is a proper debunk of his kind of "scientific debate". he thinks that his ability to google means that he can debate

How Not To Use Scientific References

It's okay for you to disagree with science.

Well, not science, just this research in particular.

Except I listed more than just one study.

Which all lead to the same conclusion I said before, the "drugs aint so bad" excuse idea to make those studies in the first place. Like it or not, drugs are bad. Each on its own particular way, as well as they may have some positive effects, they also damage people and people around them

They don't lead to the same conclusion. They lead to similar conclusion.

So all drugs are bad? Do you think the pharmaceutical industry shouldn't exist? What about caffeine and alcohol, should these be ban drugs?

I mean some people think drugs are bad or some drugs are bad or some ways to take them makes them bad but still don't think they should be ban. I sure to know quite a lot of drugs are bad but I don't think they should be ban. That's another story.

Well, my bad for not saying "some drugs are bad". But, yeah. Caffeine may not be all that bad, but it has negative outcomes to the body. Specially when "addiction" comes. As well as alcohol when it's not used as a medical procedure, but as what some people call "social drink".

Yet, I never said they should be banned. I'm no-one to say something like that, it's not up to me.

When the replies are better than the posts. 😉

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