Authentic Indian Cowboys

in history •  7 years ago 

Howdy folks and greetings from the Great Plains of North Texas,
home of several native Indian tribes in times past, most notably the
great Caddo Nation which were located in our very area before the
federal government moved them into the Oklahoma Indian
Territory. I did a series on their rise and fall and rise again.

But today I wanted to talk a little more about Indian cowboys
because of the oxymoron in terminology which that causes! lol.

Many people didn't know there WERE such a thing and yet
Indian cowboys were a consistent percentage of the great Cattle
Drives heading North from Texas for some 20 years.. normally
each crew had at least one Indian drover among them and many
photos I see bear this out.

The transformation for Indians into cowboys is not a big stretch,
in fact it is a logical one given the circumstances of being forced
onto reservations and ending the nomadic lifestyle which many
tribes had, and of course, ending their necessity of being
warriors.

The Indians were, after all, the best horsemen in the world, they
knew animals and how to raise them, they were close to nature
and were the ultimate homesteaders in most regards.

wrensted_american-indian_blanket-cowboy- (1).jpg
Cherokee Kid, rancher and actor source

So when they were forced onto the reservations many of them
started ranches and growing cattle and horses. As hard as the
federal government tried to squash any native traditions which
they had held for thousands of years, most of them kept many
intact while adapting clothing and other White ways of life.

Photos of Indian cowboys and ranchers are rare and there was alot
of scorn toward them in the White world and much discrimination
unfortunately, and for those reasons photos of genuine Indian
cowboys are rare.

What I wanted to share with you today are what I consider to be a
treasure trove of photos taken of authentic Indian cowboys who
owned and worked ranches on reservations. These were taken by
a Dutch lady by the name of Benedicte Wrensted who came to the
United States in the late 1800's and started a photography studio
in Idaho.

benedicte-wrensted.jpg
source

Unlike most photographers who had an agenda in photographing
Indians, many times showing them in a destitute and pitiful state,
she became friends with the Shoshone and Bannock tribes on the
Fort Hall reservation and let them choose how they wanted to be
photographed, in what poses and what clothing.

Here are some photos of her work which are from the U.S. National
Archives.

captain-willie_american-indian-cowboy.jpg

this Indian's name is Captain Willie, his beaded gauntlet gloves
are the type worn by both white and Indian cowboys in the 1800's
especially in rodeos.

geo-cowboy_wrensted_Indian-cowboy.jpg

this cowboy is not identified but the pattern on his chaps are of the
Sho-Ban tribe.

edmo-family_shoshone.jpg

This is Jack Edmo with his wife Lizzie and their kids, they were
prominent ranchers of the Shoshone tribe and chose traditional garb
instead of their everyday ranch working clothes. It's interesting that
on Jack's moccasins is a beaded American flag as noted under the
photo by the Archive!

Here you have a family who is shunned by the outside world and
kept on the reservation and he honors his "captors" by wearing an
image of their flag!

interplay-of-cultures_american-cowboy-indians_fort-hall-reservation.jpg

This beautiful display of traditional and reservation culture shows
three cowboy Indians wearing their reservation hat and other
ranching gear such as vests, cloth shirts and pants and neckerchiefs,
but also shows their necklaces and moccasins. This is a picture that
truly reveals the interplay of culture evident at Fort Hall Reservation.
Look at how tall that guy's hat is!

lemhi-chief-tin-door.jpg

This is a fascinating photo to me..this is chief of the Lemhi tribe
named Chief Tin Door and apparently he likes this white lady! lol.
I don't know what this is about but he must have wanted to
immortalize his affections for her!

dude-indian.jpg

This is a Shoshone named Billy George who chose to go all White
Dude for this photo, unusual to have short hair also. His wife's
name is Weetowsie. Taken in 1890.

Well that's all for today folks, I hope you've enjoyed this glimpse into
the past with some rare photos. Why did it take a woman from the
Netherlands to take classic photos like this? Our disgust with the
Indians, as a whole, was so great that we didn't care. That's sad.

Next post will be about Indian cowboys from the 1800's to the
present which I doubt(as smart as ya'll are)that few have any idea
about and I know you'll like it because it's a story of triumph of the
human spirit against prejudice and oppression.(human spirit wins)

thanks for reading guys, God bless you all!
-jonboy Texas
the gentleman redneck

ps- ya know...you might just be a redneck if:

You've spent more on your pickup truck than your education!

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Amazing job.

I'm ft hall shoban. And huge history of us before that and continus today.

Yes we are amazing horsemen. I was raised on the back of my best friend. That mare would carry me home after swimming and was very protective. I've not had a horse since her passing.

The ft hall Indian wild horse relay race might be something you could look into. The tribe does post alot. And the videos from that are on YouTube from our powwows this year.

Again. I'm sharing and voting. Nice seeing the truth and family names.

Will you contact me on discord? I might be able to source more ft hall people for you to interview.

Many thanks!

howdy sir ganjafarmer! thanks so much for commenting. I am familar with the Shoban but not with ft hall shoban.
I do mostly Old West and cowboy posts but I when i saw the exciting relay photos online I thought that would be so interesting because people have no idea that they exist!

Those are not part of the Indian rodeos that the INFR hold?
I will contact on discord, thank you!

Oh you are in for a treat!

And yeah hang on. The kind.network banner is clickable. Takes you to my discord room

Spark up Conversation on Discord

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howdy again ganjafarmer! hey I'm way behind today and trying to catch up so it's going to be awhile before I get back here, might not even be tonight but what's your schedule like most days?

4-6 pm pacific time daily I'm doing the show.

Other than that I'm very free!

And your post is being read on the ft Hall rez.

ok thank you sir. wow how is my post being read on the ft Hall reservation?
how is that possible? lol.
What is the ft? what does that mean? does the nation have a website?

Fort hall. And the link was sent to family and passed around the reservation and I'm seeing if our family can get more about the unknown picture. And Billy George? Well the George family is well known and William George is a name that rings a bell. Will ask about it.

And yeah you can talk with the tribe but they are very closed door about the heritage and history. I've asked a few times about getting them here... Maybe one day. Until then? Oh fine article sir! Was raised on the back of a horse since I was a baby. And our connection to both horses and dogs is very deep. And training methods are unparalled in my opinion. We really bond and respect our companions.

And the reason Shoshone warrior was a great cattleman? Well unmatched horsemanship and bravery. Other tribes respected the Shoshone enough that the cattle drive would be safer than ones with other tribe involvement. And the reach of the Shoshone nation spanned the entire Oregon trail.

Had the 1806 treaty with Lewis and Clark expedition been ratified? The Shoshone made it possible. In return we were to be honored as an ally and recognized our borders.

Currently we have to operate on the 1868 Jim Bridger treaty... The kid from the revenant and Hugo Glass Saga.

Personally? Well done! And nominating you for Earth Tribe. Besides would love to have you on my daily show...

thanks so much sir ganjafarmer...oh of course, Fort Hall in Idaho I think it is, sorry about that duh! lol. I got your discord channel up now but i see that you are off, I'll click your name when it is green, I'm just learning how to get around in discord.

howdy again sir ganjafarmer! thank you so much for this website, I love this thing, I am so buried in projects right now but I will eventually read every word. Does the Reservation have good internet and everyone has computers?

You found some great photos this time. I do always look at old pictures and wonder what was going on at the time. The back story is an intrigue.

as i mentioned above looks like a paid gig or wild bill type show if not an outright slave situation. chief is a bit farfetched imo. i tagged a tribal member to hopefully give some insight.

Thank you so much for the insight. I will go see your above comment and follow the story with great interest.
It is a shame the museums do not provide better information.

lets see if my tag gets an answer below, under my comment. i just posted it. indians for one dont trust archeologists and especially museums lol

Well thank you. I feel pretty honored that you choose to share so we can learn more of the true history.

Now that picture of Billy George, that is something different. Hey, maybe he realized having short would be a lot easier to maintain than long hair, and cooler in the summer!

howdy hebrewhousewife! well, that would be so interesting to know, on the information from the National Archives it said that an Indian agent called him "the dude Indian" because he always wore nice white man's shirts and coats unless he was working on the ranch. So I thought that was interesting, he really liked our style of clothing or was trying hard to fit in when he left the ranch.
too bad we can't interview these people. I just never see any photos of Indians with short hair from that period.
thanks so much for commenting, do you have a post today?

People used the word “dude” during that time? Interesting. I’m sure we could learn a lot if we could interview them.
Yes sir I did. I’ll be interested to see what you think too.

hebrewhousewife! yes the quote with the word dude in it was a quote from 1890 by an Indian agent so I was really surprised that he called the Indian the "dude" Indian! lol. who'd a thought.
as far as your post, yeah I don't know, that's one that mepatriot should know about, I don't know what they want with all this info but it sure isn't safe with them, that cracked me up when I saw that.
so I don't know but I'm with you, don't trust them.

Really enjoyed the photos janton, I bet there are lots of stories that are forever hidden, like good juicy ones - haha

haha! yes Ma'am too bad we don't have any lengthy interviews of these Indians, that would be fascinating, thanks so much for commenting.

Hey thanks @janton. I really enjoyed this post. She did a lovely job.

thanks so much squirrelbait I agree, I just more magazines or newspapers back then would have taken more photos and done more interviews.

Me too! I wonder what people in the future will think of all the info we gather and post, assuming the data can be read by future software.

This made me smile (loved the pics) and feel sad for what the government did to the Indians. I can’t wrap my mind around it.

howdy this fine Monday night thefarmerswife!yes Ma'am everyone was sick of them and just wanted them out of the way or gone.

what a shame, it sure wasn't God's plan I know that, many of the tribes, probably most of them were willing to work with us and adapt and integrate and think what we could have learned from them in terms of natural medicines and herbs, working with nature and so on.

These are some beautiful photos. @janton
great history write up

howdy there rebeccabe..thanks so much, I guess I'm a dinosaur but I love old vintage photos, especially if they are rare like these. I mean no one took photos of the Indians on the reservations like that, people didn't care about the Indians, most people just wanted them gone instead of working together and learning from each other.
thanks so much for commenting.

I learned a little bit of history lesson today. :-)

good morning sir quotes-haven! yes sir well alot of people probably did it they read the post because how many people know that there were full-blooded Indian cowboys? did you? We never saw them in Hollywood or tv and that's where most of us get our impressions of the Old West. thank you sir.

Ultimate homesteaders indeed! Thanks for another wonderful historical post

good morning buckaroo! thank you so much...well I love old vintage photos and to be able to study the people in them but I didn't know if readers would find it boring or not.
When South Africa was "settled" by whites, were there a forcing out of the native peoples? I don't think I've ever heard stories about that.

Not at all! Except for small villages of the San people most of the country was uninhabited except for the wild animals. The first encounter with black tribes was in a very isolated area. Of course the media don't tell THAT version. They always give the impression that the poor native blacks were forced from their homes. Not true! The biggest dispute over land back then was actually between the British and Dutch settlers.

What a wonderful and special collection of photos! It is remarkable that someone took the time and the care to make them and archive them for future generations to enjoy! Thank you for sharing this fabulous series with #steemitbloggers 💙

howdy this fine Tuesday thekittygirl! I've seen you around from time to time but I'm not sure where..are you in Asher's Engagement League? I see that you are also in the Alliance too! I just got into the playground but don't know how to work that, haven't contacted anyone.

I must say..your blog background image is one of the most striking that I've seen!
Thanks so much for the kind words about the post, I love vintage photos but didn't know if people would be bored with them. To me they are a treasure, a look into the past of a type of people group that we know little about because we just wanted them gone or at least out of the way
even though they were proud, noble, and we could have learned so much from them! so thank you and God bless you!

Beautyfull photos @janton. Keep the awesomeness coming, Cowboy! ;) <333

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reikigirl..you really liked them? I could study these photos for a long time, this is a rare look into the past of a people we didn't understand and didn't care to know. I was afraid people would find them boring.

are you kidding me Cowboy? I love them! Not boring at all, imho <333 :)

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ok reikigirl. thanks so much for being you. now I'm going over to your blog and blast the trash out of you! lol. well, sometime today, there's so many though I 'm way behind.

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Indian cowboys?! I didn't know that! Thank you for the information.

The photos are beautiful. I like the style..

well well well..look who we have here. lol. how ya doin delishtreats?
so good to see you. I've started to comment to you several times and never got it done for some reason but I would have found you eventually!

How's your hand? and did you check out that voice activated typing thing yet? I know that melinda010100 uses one of those because she is using one hand.

I must say this is an honor to see you here, I've been reading your excellent comments all over steemit since I joined, you probably didn't know that because you always beat me and comment before I do.

But regarding the post..yes Indian cowboys! sounds like a contradiction in terms doesn't it? I'm so glad you like the vintage photos, I think they're treasures from the past of a people we know little about, I was afraid people would find them boring.

thank you so much, don't be a stranger.

Well, well, well, I already wondered how you can win the engagement league without ever commenting on my posts, lol. I hope to find more comments from you in the future :)

I'm doing fine, thank you. Hope you're doing well too! My hand hurts but no more than last week so this is a good sign. I will check out with her to see which one she is using. Thank you for the tip!

Oh, thank you for the kind compliment! :) This might be right.. I don't see many of your comments but as I said already, hope to see more :)

Yes! It somehow sounds strange: 'Indian cowboys'. I love them.. I still remember how my uncle was making photos from negatives in a dark room. You never knew how they would come out :D Now you can simply check them in your camera, take as many shots as you wish and delete whichever you don't like. Much easier and convenient but I somehow miss that excitement that I was feeling while waiting for the photos from him..

Thank you for coming back to me! :)

howdy again delishtreats! uh..you may have to take that last sentence back someday because ya see delishtreats... when I finally find someone and connect with them there is no escaping me!

I hound people mercilessly and force them to tell me their life's story even if they don't want to! lol.

It's interesting that you liked the old photo developing process. My dad was a big photographer and we also had a Dark Room where we spent hours developing, there is a certain charming peace about that process and watching your photos come to life!

It was also totally black in there with the lights out and made a good place to practice loading and emptying my six-shooter by feel.

But you ain't from around here are you? where are you from anyway?
I'm so sorry I haven't gotten to your blog yet, is it scary? maybe I should delay that project!

I'd have been there but this Alliance deal has detained me, working on that. but I will be there I promise!

your hand..is it your wrist? can you wrap it? is it just one that bothers you?

talk soon

I'm looking forward to that 'no escaping me'!

Hahaha, I have a friend and is very good at listening. People even tell him stories that he doesn't want to hear!

It's nice that your dad included you in the process.. these are the moments that you will never forget.

I'm originally from Slovakia but I've been living in Switzerland for more than 7 years. English is my third language (after Slovak and Dutch).

I'd like to believe that my blog isn't scary, lol. But you'll need to check it out to see yourself!

It's my right elbow. The inflammation was/is massive (as my doctor said). He couldn't understand how come I have no idea how I developed it as my tendons have deep cuts in them which should only happen with an injury and I had no injury. So the cause of my conditions remains a mystery :)

howdy this fine Wednesday delishtreats! wow that's very mysterious about your injury because you have that injury even though you were never injured! hhhmmm. but that fits because you YOURSELF is a mystery from what I've heard! lol.

So you are a Slovak...that strikes me very hard as being very interesting also. Did you spend much time in the Czech area?

I am an avid collector of Czechoslovakian art glass. Love the stuff, am fascinated by the great artists that worked in those glass plants before the Germans came in and smashed everything to pieces. (What's funny is that I thought I would change things up and do a post on Czech glass and then I find out you are from Slovakia! lol. amazing..at least to my pea brain.)

But that is ancient history and I know that it is now divided into two countries. You wouldn't happen to have any art glass laying around would you? lol.

Why did you move to Switzerland?
one of my goals is to get to your blog, I have hit a wall, so to speak, and I'm maxed out or close to it as far as how many people I can follow and stay in touch with and still do some kind of post, I'm sure you've run into that as well, hard to find a balance sometimes but I will make it over there and try to unravel the truth of the mysterious delishtreats!
for some reason I thought you were German! I was sure of it, probably something I heard. the mystery deepens. who is this girl??

Just have more distractions this week than normal.
thanks so much for getting back to me, God bless you and let that arm heal, the Engagement League needs you!

Hello, hello dear @janton! Am I a mystery!? Well, now you have to elaborate a little bit more :)

I lived in Prague for 6 years before I moved to Switzerland. How do you get the glass? Have you been to Czech Republic? Hahaha, what a coincidence! You should put together that post. I would be interested to see what is in your collection. I don't have a piece myself but I visit Prague regularly because I have many friends there so I could get you something if you would have a piece that you would really like to own :)

Oh, I travel to Germany a lot because we live 10 minutes from the German border. It's funny that people think I'm German :) Well, I don't talk a lot about myself in my posts so I can understand that they are confused. I moved to Switzerland because of my husband. We met in 2010 in Prague office (we worked for the same company). We were working on the same project and somehow got together. At that time he was living in Luxembourg but was about to move to Switzerland. We got married in 2011 while I was still living in Prague. That was not sustainable for long time so I quit my job, moved to Switzerland and managed to get a job in the same company after 1 month :D

Don't worry. I understand you. I'm also spending too much time trying to catch up with all people I follow and would love to talk to. I will have to slow down soon as I'll start working on a new big project (no, no, I won't tell you now what it is :))

I wish you a great day! And I will be back in the engagement league soon! :)

howdy there delishtreats! haha! so good to hear back from you and sorry it took so long to reply but since I started the Engagement League I haven't been so far behind in commenting and things as I was today.

I did get a small post out showing a little of my glass. but hey, that's great to hear that you go to Prague often! The glass I like is from the 1920's and 30s predominately...before the Germans destroyed the place in 1939 I believe it was. So basically Art Deco style if you are familiar with that period. If not you should study it! lol. wonderful styling.

Thank you so much for that brief bio that you gave me, you've been around alot already for a kid! lol. And now in Switzerland..wow, are you in a big city? And how is living there compared to Prague?

Ok, I don't want to ask too many questions and my brain is fried, it's going on 2am here so this is my last comment of the day and it's a pleasant way to finish.

I'm so freaking far behind that I didn't get to your blog yet! sorry. but I will because I like you. Besides I'm curious because you said you didn't talk much about yourself in your posts!

That's like unheard of. Everyone talks about themselves all the time! lol.
So I want to know how you do that.

Thanks so much for your fine comment and God bless you!

Thank you for this rare glimpse into something rarely shown @janton. The photos are awesome, some weird and a bit "cringy" ... the Chief "liking" the white gal :), but all so cool to see! I love how Native culture has such a connection to nature and animals; we've got plenty to learn from them I'd say.

I'm submitting this one to c-squared too. I have a slight suggestion for you when doing the photo posts like this; it might just be a personal preference of mine, but consider putting the writing for each photo above it instead of below it? Thoughts? Like I said, could just be me :)

hey who made you Queen of Steemit to tell others how to run their posts? oh I guess we all did. lol. ok I'll do that, actually sometimes I do that and other times I don't but if it flows more logically then yes..I think it would.

I'm so glad you liked the photos, I consider them to be real treasures from the past and a look at a people we know little about. yes isn't that one with the Chief kneeling down a strange one? first of all it looks like he's a female to me, I couldn't tell. then that white lady looks all flushed and gushing lol. it's a great photo just bizarre. wish I knew more about it.

thanks so much Lynn!

haha the Queen! Hey, in the end, it's your post 😅

Reading through all of these comments, there seems to be a few who would love to know more details!

yes but sadly you're not one of them..too busy doing other things to be bothered with such trifles.

hahaha don't you ever wonder if people read this and think you're serious lol

@janton we elected @lynncoyle Queen of Steemit last week. I'm sure there's a post on it.... some where on someone's computer

haha thank you for setting him straight @tryskele 😅

@lynncoyle1 you know how these old cowboys are LOL

very right on about cringy, which is why i tagged a tribal member to check this out. looks more of a paid job or slave type behavior. still interesting. imo, sad but still a part of history.

It is sad, and weird, and historical ... and I'm not making light of anything. I'd love to hear what the tribal member has to say. I don't know enough about the history to comment much, and I'm sure @janton would like to know more as well.

i wouldnt have suspected you to be light about it, and he responded below.

I read through it all; not sure you got what you were looking for? It does feel like a piece of the puzzle behind the photos etc seems to be missing through no fault of anyone here.

im glad its not only me feeling or seeing it. LOL
also the source links arent working for me and not all photos are sourced. doh

hahaha nope; can't quite put my finger on it all, but it feels like seeing traditional Samurai in three-piece suits and top hats :)

i started doing my own research on it and will do a post. most of it appears to be staged.

Hi @janton. These are are some very interesting cowboys. News to me that there were many American Indians that became cowboys. It really makes perfect sense in the evolution of what was going on at the time of the developing west. 🐓🐓

howdy there mother2chicks! yes isn't that something? especially since it sounds like a contradiction in terms. but in Texas almost all the ranches had at least one Indian cowhand and that was during the Indian Wars and after so I'm not sure how they ended up ranching, haven't figured that out yet.
I can understand how they ended up ranching on the reservations but not the white ranches.
thanks so much for commenting!

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love the old photos , is that lady with chief tin door winking ?

winchestergirl! I'm so glad you like the old photos, I could study them for a long time...yes that lady appears to be winking at Chief Tin Door!

she was a cheeky lady then, have you looked into how there get there names , I mean Chief Tin Door , is quite unusual ?

howdy again winchestergirl! I don't know what the expression "cheeky lady" means. the names are very interesting. Long ago they named differently than now but I doubt it there is any information available on that Chief as to how he got his.

cheeky lady well it sort means a bit forward with the men , or just up for a good laugh , it could mean anything really. hey you have detective work now with looking up these names ; )

nah I doubt if those slang British terms are in my dictionary! lol. howya doin winchestergirl?

I am ok , thanks for asking , are you still wanting to find a job at Walmart , hows that going x

winchestergirl! well, I DON'T want a job at Walmart but might be forced to get one. No I'm trying to avoid that because that would mean just very part time on steemit.

Great post! It's interesting how the white man forced their culture on the Native Americans and it's also nice to know that there were some who showed them enough respect and portrayed them with a little dignity.

You're part of my Pay it Forward Contest submission this round Link

You deserve the praise for being such a nice guy.

Update on this comment. You can find my entry here

Hey great choice @the-witty-waiter :) I'm looking forward to seeing your entry too!

I was a bit rushed and messed up the link but the second one is the actual link to my PiFC post @lynncoyle1

hey witty-waiter yes sir I agree, while most whites wanted them dead and thought they were vermin, this lady befriended them and gained their respect and admiration. far more than any Americans did, but I'm thankful for her efforts and work. thanks so much witty-waiter.'

oh I just noticed the pay it forward thing! well thank you sir and no one is nicer than you! and headchange yay! I love headchange! she's a headcase but still...lol. I wonder if she finally did another post?

I feel good after seeing this good post. wish you very all the best.
keep countinue. We need more great post to you.
Carry on

howdy there anon9! thank you so much for the kind words and I will go see your post today, thanks for coming over because you reminded me of yours!

of cours i do. i take you in my favorit list. you are most welcome

@ganjafarmer maybe you can lend some insight to this? i mostly know this to be a part of paid work like the Wild Bill show.

@janton, ganja is shoshone bannock and may or may not be able to lend some oral historical facts to this post. most natives i know stay silent on whether or not material presented are true or false. i prefer to share so people know truth.

since you and i have built a relationship, i feel comfortable enough to share with you. hopefully, you are okay with this and do not take this as a negative. after the takeover not many were open to White ways and that continues to this day.

Oh it's awesome job! And yeah that's my family history and if you check with the current ft hall council members you will see the last name edmo.

Killer job! And yes we still are top of the world with horsemanship and a long history of working with the local immigrants.

I'm half breed. Half white half rez.

Showing this article to some family. Amazing job honored for this write-up.!

so what is the info about the chief and the woman, and the woman photographer? i was interested in those years presented by the photos. you are stating that info is accurate? just clarifying. i thought you were adopted, not that it matters. you are a trubal member right? i think ive asked before but im clarifying again sorry LOL

howdy eaglespirit! oh of course..share away! yes I understand back then why they were not open to White ways, I don't blame them but I didn't know the extend to which that attitude existed today.

I don't really do Indian stuff, just usually Old West and cowboys but since there were cowboy Indians that's why I did this one,
thank you so much for sharing, I haven't seen ganjafarmer before but it would certainly be interesting to get his take on this! wow.
thanks so much!

well usually people like to mix “cowboys and indians” and it wasnt a great time in indian history since this was a time of great killing on both sides and the takeover. ive seen recent photos of the rodeos that indians were a part of and got started with the wild bill show. thanks for being open about the subject!

absolutely eaglespirit! yes my upcoming post that I am working on is about the professional Indian rodeo association since I did them about the white rodeos. yes they indeed had some real stars that were hired for the Wild West shows and they were the best horsemen in the world.

I'll try to make it over to ganjafarmer's blog sometime, I wonder if, like you said, he would have anything to add?
thanks so much.

i just had a convo and he is not a papered tribal member so i have to reword my title there. it is a big difference to be documented or undocumented. oral history is not always given to those outside of the inner circle. much of what is found in history books or archeological info is not truth. its hard to get it all and most info unless from direct descendant is easy to come by. many people exaggerate or claim to be what they are not. anyone can write what they like, freedom of speech. LOL GB America 😁

Well this is quite fascinating, and that was before I started working through the comments! I have enjoyed this historical pictures, especially because it's something I know little about (seen a few cowboy and Indian movies but no facts in those really), it's especially interesting to see the photographs were by a dutch lady - I can see comments about the set up of these, it's possible the dutch lady orchestrated some of the poses but I don't feel there is a suggestion this was against will - possibly not fully understood.

And I'm quite sure my reasonably priced SUV costs more then my education ever did - so do I get redneck status? Do I get some bull horns on the front of it now 🐮

c0ff33commentaimage.png
#thealliance #witness

haha! sir c0ff33a! thanks so much for stopping by..well sir..I knew that many people were not familiar with the concept of Indian Cowboys so I thought it would be interesting to do a little educatin!

I do alot of Old West history teaching but usually just about white cowboys ,but I couldn't resist talking about the Indian cowboys also. I love the vintage photos and spent quite a bit of time studying them, they are indeed a treasure from a past which few know about.

The U.S. National Archives states from a book about the photographer that she did indeed become good friends with them and it was their choice of what to wear and how to pose.
that's what makes the photo of Chief Tin Door so interesting or puzzling!
I have no idea what that one means.

I'm so glad you liked this one, I am supposed to put a few in the playground so I may use this as one.

oh, welcome to the redneck alliance sir! lol. yes you qualify! no fees here, you just have to laugh at all my lame redneck jokes!
I didn't know the UK had rednecks, now I know! lol.

Wow, amazing photos and stories to go with it! Thanks for sharing!

howdy again sir balticbadger! yes sir I love history and for some reason especially the Old West stuff. I guess being from out by Dodge City, Kansas may be why.

Never been that far west, but I never been to Texas either (well DFW airport several times) hoping to get out there though! I did fight wildfires for a year out in Hell Canyon South Dakota. THat was a hell of a time.

howdy sir balticbadger! oh hey, I didn't know you were a firefighter! how long did you do that and did you like it?

I did one season of actual wildfire then I did a couple years after that some volunteer burning in Wisconsin for the fish and wildlife service. Was fun and hard!

howdy this fine Tuesday sir balticbadger! well sir it sound like hard to me! but I really admire you guys for that work.


This post was shared in the Curation Collective Discord community for curators, and upvoted and resteemed by the @c-squared community account after manual review.

I voted and supported this. Thanks! @janton do you have discord? Thanks C squared!

Hey @ganjafarmer, I sent janton a private message as well; I just got him on there last week. Before that, we were talking old school ... email haha

Right on! And I'm not hearing anything bad back so it seems the family is enjoying the article. Maybe I can get more info on the unknown picture.

That would be awesome!

thank you so much c-squared, God bless you!

There was an old movie that featured an American Indian who was the last of his tribe and with disclaimer that it was based on a true story. I just can't remember it from decades ago. I wonder if you know.

That photo of Chief Tin Door with a white lady is indeed fascinating. With the discrimination you mentioned, could the scene be just for a show?

I keep wondering about American Indians as to why they are called so. Are they literally from India? I don't think people in India had such kind of clothes but I could be wrong. My question may sound stupid but I want to know. I can Google it now that I remember it but I thought it would also be good to get an answer straight from a redneck.

By the way, I came across your post through @the-witty-waiter who featured it on the @pifc contest. I see your name around so I suppose you already know about it.

just happened to see your question, i am native american but my ancestors call ourselves by a native american word not commonly used. many of the indigenous tribes from north america have different names. the term native american is palitable but not what we prefer. no we do not come from india but our culture as a whole like to use the phrase “we are one.” hope this helps,

eagle spirit

I think native American is much better than American Indian. The former sounds like it has its own identity unlike the latter that is dual identity. I think it is cool to be called a native in your own country. That is non-negotiable identity, yeah? 😊

Thanks for helping on the clarification.

I am sure someone will come along and elaborate. Here is a quick version.
When the white men came here they were searching for a quicker trade route to India.
When they arrived they thought they were in India seeing the darker skinned people.
This is why many prefer to use the term Native American to differentiate.

That's another interesting version. I wonder how could the white men think they were already in India when India is in a different continent. If they were travelling by land, they should at least know that they need to pass bodies of water before they get to India. That is unless geography was not popular during those days.

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

howdy there this fine Tuesday night macoolette! so good to see you and to meet you. I think I've seen you in the Engagement League comments correct?
I don't recall the movie that you referred to, would need a little more information, I don't suppose you remember any actors in it?

regarding the photo of Chief Tin Door, all of these photos are from the book of the Dutch photographer and the information is from her book also and she said that she allowed all of them to use the poses which they chose..so the Chief evidently wanted that pose but who knows what reason he had?

No the name Indians is not because of anything to do with India. When the Spanish arrived in Central America they called the natives there a phrase which meant "innocent one" or close to that meaning and one of the words in the phrase was indios.

Well over time that was just shortened to Indian probably because it was easier and simpler to spell and I think that probably spread North into what is now the United States. But some native Americans don't like to use it because it paints a very broad brush and is just a generic term for the hundreds of tribes here.

Plus it was used for many years as a derogative term and some still see it that way. That's not a stupid question that's a great question and one that few people know the answer to.

I did see that contest entry which witty-waiter was kind enough to do and thank you for mentioning that in case I hadn't seen it.
What do you do for a living in the Philippines? There are so many people from your country here on steemit!
Thanks so much for reading and commenting, God bless you.

It was noon to me by the time you were writing your reply. You stay up late, huh? Yes, I am one of those who have this wishful thinking of beating you in the engagement league. 😂

I can't remember even the actor on that movie. The ending was that he was taking his native outfit one by one on a stage as if to say his time is done. Anyway, I'll try to Google that. Sometimes it is good to revisit old films...

Your version gives much more clarity to my question about that Indian thing. Thank you! @eaglespirit mentioned about Native Americans and I thought the term Native is better than Indian though it is still sad to know of the discrimination.

We also have different tribes here in the Philippines and I have to agree that discrimination exists. People from the city or more urbanized areas look at the natives as if the latter are dirty and really of lower class. I myself have experienced that. My parents are both from the same northern tribe called Kankanaey. It is something like a sub-group of a wider tribe Igorot. They both left their hometown and stayed in a different province (or state to you) where I was born and lifestyle is totally different. While we thought we adapted, there still was this obvious discrimination as if Igorots are dirty and should not be mingling with them. They stared at me with eyes wide open if they learn that I am an Igorot and exclaim questions like “then why is your skin not dark?”, “why is your hair not kinky?”, “why don’t you have a tail?” or those sorts of things. They are actually referring to aetas. Sometimes my fellow Filipinos need to be educated about their nation and fellow countrymen. Even if I am an aeta, so what? As if I am not a human like them, huh? Anyway, I don’t wanna whine about that.

I am in the field of IT and yes, there are many of my fellow Filipinos here on Steemit. I am actually overwhelmed with how our Terry boy is inspiring the Filipinos here. I cannot keep up scrolling through all their posts especially with that #Ulog posts. 😃

You’re welcome. God bless you too.

haha! hey macoolette howdy on this fine Wednesday! yes Ma'am I think it's very admirable to have a goal of knocking me off of the first place in the Engagement League. In fact I love that goal because it can only help the entire community grow. And the great ecoinstant proved last week that it can be done...especially if you don't care about sleeping! lol.

If you work a full time job then perhaps when you have a vacation week but then that would be an exhausting way to spend your week off!
Ok well first just make a goal of getting into the Green perhaps.

As far as your lineage and the discrimination..oh man! Doesn't it seem like that type of thing would be gone by now since you are all from the same country and with modern infrastructure and amenities I'm sure no one is living in grass huts or anything are they?

But people are so ignorant and it is ingrained in them culturally as they grow up I suppose. The term "aeta" is one used to describe a native Filipino?
No you aren't whining you are just explaining the situation which is so interesting but sad but at least they didn't round up all your ancestors and put them in little reservations away from the rest of the population did they?

It IS tremendously exciting to see all that steemit and Terry is doing to help your countrymen, it's amazing.
Thanks so much for writing back, it's a pleasure talking to you and learning about you. You work in IT, is that outside home in a big office or something?

It is my Thursday night and your early morning so good morning to you!

... if you don't care about sleeping!

That is why I said it is a wishful thinking to be trying to beat you on the engagement league. I need to be working full time on Steemit for that to happen. I want to sleep and I want to have life on weekends so no, thank you. 😃 I'll just keep on my usual business and see where I landed on at the end of the week.

no one is living in grass huts or anything are they?

None that I know of at least based on my few visits to where my parents came from. I am not really sure in the far flung areas on the country but I think there could be few of them.

I saw a post describing Terry as legendary. With all his efforts to build and uplift the Filipino community here, I think he is. I used to work in a corporate office and I plan to be back very soon. How about you? What do rednecks do? 😊

haha! I would describe him as legendary also, it is so exciting that in a poorer country that steemit can literally change lives!

The Philippines is a strange and wonderful place I'd love to visit sometime.
me? oh I've been looking for some way to make money from home, not ready to retire at all but found steemit while I was looking for something and just hoping it will turn out to be a good investment. So for the moment at least, that's all I'm doing as far as "work".

Do you have job applications in and looking to be hired at a regular company?

Steemit can change lives but not as easy as having a real job unless they invest into it. I just hope my fellow countrymen realizes that and not rely on it so much while they are still building their account. But I am sure Terry would have told them about it.

You are home-based. So that explains why you are unbeatable on the engagement league. You can type on Steemit round the clock! It looks you do not really sleep, huh?

I just have to finish a few stuff before getting into a cubicle again.

hahaha! well yes I'm home based and have time at the moment but I do get enough sleep too!

Nice piece @janton. What I thought about during this was did the other Indian's (the warriors) shun the guys that worked with the white cowboys? Effectively taking abuse it from both sides. What suffering did this Indian family go through gives me the shivers

howdy sir blanchy! I don't know what the Indian tribes thought about ranch hands who were working for the white ranchers, maybe they considered them to be traitors or just an anomaly I don't know I haven't read anything about that but they were treated fine on the ranches by the other cowboys because the cowboys lived by what was called the Cowboy Code.

I did a post called that, they believed in treating every man equal, the black cowboys and the Indians, everyone earned respect and were like brothers but that was just on the ranch or on the cattle drives, when they went to town the towns people had different ideas.

Oh thats good to know .I must read back on that!

thank you sir, here's a link, I think Ireland should adopt the Cowboy Code! lol. there's alot about whiskey in there!

https://steemit.com/education/@janton/cowboy-ethics-the-code-of-the-west

😂😂😂 we are fairly nice to the native Indians here! They are mad for the bush mills whiskey. Ravenhead the reservation chief has a stash Of the 1916 reserve! 😂😂

what?? there are Indians in Ireland? no there ain't, that's a joke right? lol.

😂😂😂. There’s cowboys too but they don’t ride horses here!

haha! how can a cowboy not ride a horse! you daft man! lol.

Fascinating stuff, Jon. In fact, a detailed study of Indian cowboys would make a wonderful book, or Master's thesis! Well done, as always, my friend!

yes sir thank you sir, I think you should write the book and I'll do posts on it, a chapter a day!

LOL...you got a good start on the research, man. It's your baby. Could make you very rich and famous! Because it's that kind of topic!

ha! well I like the sound of rich, I don't care to be famous though. I don't know if there's enough material about it, it would probably take years to find enough.

Some times best sellers take years.....

hahaha! well dang you better get started then! lol. hey if we can find a way to have an income pouring in while I take the time to travel and do research then I'll think about it.

I don't think you're listening....lol....

yeah I guess I don't want to! ha.

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What a great set of photos you've discovered! Well done and thanks for sharing!

PS: I've found your post after reading @the-witty-waiter's participation in the Pay It Forward Contest

oh well howdy there trincowski! thank you sir. I see from your blog that you are very interested in art. Yes sir I view those photos as being rare treasures from the past that few people have ever seen, I so glad that you like them.
what are things like in Portugal? do you have a job or career?

You're welcome! 😄

Yes, I do. I work as a developer. I can't complain. My salary is enough to make a good living, go on holidays abroad every year and I still get some savings, from which I bet part of on Crypto, mostly Bitcoin.

Most of my savings are supposedly safe - as long as the Portuguese Government stays afloat, I'll be OK!

howdy again sir trincowski! well, what is a "developer" ...what kind of werk is that? and also, is the economy in Portugal strong? I realize that I don't know anything about that country.

Software Developer. A Programmer. Of computer programs. I should have been more specific.

Strong? Nah. The only things strong around here are the wine, the sun and some women, too! 😂😂😂

hahaha! you're funny sir trincowski! so you do programming..do you have any suggestions for steemit on how to do things better?

ha! your country sounds pretty appealing just on those three things!

¡ Excelente! Gusto saludarte @janton, llegue a tu post porque @the-witty-waiter, selecciono tu post para el concurso Pay It Forward Curation. Si gustas estas invitado cordialmente a participar

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

howdy celinavisaez! ¡Muchas gracias por leer y comentar!
God bless you!

Nice write up and cool photos.

I found your blog via @the-witty-waiter featuring you in the PIFC.

howdy sir rentmoney! you are a very familiar name indeed and I've seen your comments around quite a bit as well so it's nice to finally connect. Thank you so much for the kind words and it was so nice of witty-waiter to enter me, he is such a great guy!
From what I understand you do tons of work helping others in various ways. Is that a fair statement?

Howdy to you as well ! I have seen your name a time or two also :)

I run lots of promotions and small giveaways that are aimed at helping others and creating interaction on the Steemit platform.

howdy again sir rentmoney! yes sir..hold it..I don't know if you're a sir, you could be a Ma'am. there is nothing to go by with your username and I can't remember if I saw your blog or not, shame on me. well anyway thanks so much for helping people and God bless you for that sir or Ma'am!

Hi @janton, as you may know @the-witty-waiter featured you in this week's @pifc Pay It Forward contest.

As you may know @pifc's goals are to featured undervauled and unknown Steemian to give them better exposure, so people like yourself can visit and help lift them up and maybe help you catch a Sugar Whale.

I admit it a giggled as I wrote all of that out!! I am glad that @the-witty-waiter found you. I think the 2 of you would have me laughing so hard I'd pee my pants.

As for your post. Can I hire you to write for me and I'll split the proceeds with you? J/K Great article and even more awesome that you found out about the photographer. I've seen a few authentic pictures at places like Mesa Verde (very few) It's nice to know that as an artist that her was her goal to photograph them. There is something about the quality of pictures from that time.

These are amazing photos! I am so glad that the Dutch lady did those photos as she did. The worst thing white man did was to put these folks on reservations! It was their land!

howdy cecicastor! yes Ma'am I am so thankful for the Dutch lady preserving a part of our history and people. It was a terrible part of our history what we did to the Indian nations, shameful! thank you so much for your comment.

I'm sitting here wondering what the United States would look like had the wars against the tribes not occurred, and had they not been forced onto reservations or more die.

In doing so, I'm not at all condoning genocide, because that's essentially what it ended up being. Regardless of who started what, or how incompatible some tribes may or may not have been with the American/European way of life, the US government had the superior weapons and perhaps savagery and ultimately proved it. Upon them rests this tragedy.

I'm not a fan of Manifest Destiny, and I believe we are all children of God. Even if others aren't comfortable with that, I think it can be more generically said that I believe there is room for all people in this world, as long as they are able to live in peace with one another and settle their differences. There does need to be a level of civility on all sides.

I guess I'm not really hitting the points of your post regarding the tribes men becoming cowboys. :)

oh no I agree and that's the larger point, I just thought you would enoy those vintage photos, I thought they were fascinating. One of the guys on steemit is a Shoshone and he said his aunts last name is George and so that photo of Billy George, the "dude" indian is her great grandfather or great great grandfather!
he liked that post so much that he sent the link to the Shoshone reservation and they all were studying it. I thought that was interesting.

But as far as what happened with the government and all. yeah spiritually there is no way that was God's plan.
Especially for the tribes that were very peaceful like the Caddo Nation here, I don't know if you were reading my posts yet when I did that series but they were totally working with local settlers and were great farmers and no threat and still got moved onto land which is so poor they couldn't even farm it.

I read through those comments about the people of Fort Hall reading your post. That's awesome. I think you've done some good there, sir. :)

Well, we're not all that good as a human race at following God's plan, or we wouldn't be anywhere near where we are today. There are consequences for what we do, and there will be a reckoning for it at some point. I think many of us will be surprised at how it all shakes out, too. :)

I think I may have picked up towards the end of those. I've often heard reservations described as sovereign land, or that the tribes are their own sovereign nations, or that they even can claim dual sovereignty. You even hear of some tribes doing quite well, while I'm sure there are others and various individuals who are not.

The idea of being sovereign unto myself is cool to contemplate. Not sure what the reality of it would look like, though. :)

howdy there sir on this fine Friday! what is planned for the weekend? noting right? because of your wife recovering and all. sovereignty is a wonderful dream as individuals but it is becoming more difficult each year with the amount of taxes that we have to pay and all the other regulations and such..just the property taxes alone keep us from being sovereign. miss a couple of payments and they take everything.

yes, I only know of one tribe that is doing well and that is our own Caddo Nation but most others, the vast majority like the Shoshone are in crushing poverty.

I'd have to double check all of this before stating it as complete fact, but I've heard that the tribes in Oregon are doing pretty well since they are allowed to own and run casinos. They can turn out to be very nice resorts, too. So, anyway, that doesn't speak for all.

Well, property tax is often a local and county thing. I can't think of anything on our bill that isn't going to a local school or fire district, as well as something for the county ESD. That in and of itself has been enough because the community college and the public school floated bonds for expansions and repairs and in the process more than doubled our property taxes in a matter of five years.

There's the sovereign nation that taxes and regulates us into oblivion, and then there's personal sovereignty, where we should be able to opt out of the madness, but you're right. They won't let you.

As far as I know, there's nothing planned yet, other than a trip to the grocery store tomorrow. An art and air festival starts today I believe. Not sure if we're going to try to go to that, but we'll see.

ok sir, your wife is walking around good already? she'd have to be if you go to that festival.

We're not going. She decided not to go with the daughter-in-law to a movie, either, because she wasn't ready to be out that long. We did have a longer than planned walk around the neighborhood today, and she's trying to do more than what she probably should again. I've been trying to put the breaks on it with some success. I think the pain is low enough now that she hasn't taken a pain pill in a couple of days, but it still hampers movement.

ok but that sounds like remarkably fast recovery isn't it? what movie? lol,. not being nosy I just like movies and I know you do to so you'd have an opinion.

Your post has been read and you did great! You received a 10.0% upvote from us for your post with the history tag since you are not yet a member of the geopolis community.
You are always welcome to join us and get more recognition for your posts. You can find more information about geopolis here or join our Discord server.

thank you so much geopolis, I will check out that link. God bless you!

enjoyable posts to read as always @janton, Howdy!
look at the hairstyle of the last photo.. that's really cool and wondering have he put any pomade on his hair too? so unique and stylish but all the pics above is wonderful and a great treasure for your country.

hey cicisaja! thanks so much for reading and commenting, I forgot about you this week I think, I'm going over to your blog right now!

Howdy @janton 😊 I am a bit busy this week and I think you'll not see me anywhere in the charts tomorriw because I didn't comments a lot luje usual, being busy and only use the mobile phone is quite difficult to read the post thorougly. Sometimes when I've typed so many words on reply.. the app stopped and ruin my mood.

Hope that you'll keep the top seat too this week.

howdy back cicisaja! well so why didn't you just use your laptop or desktop computer instead of your phone? I don't know how people use their phones on steemit.

Well... I have no time to use the laptop, because I have to move around to serve coffee for customers😊 phone will work better if it's about reading short posts and replies to some comments.
Well.. I use eSteemApp in my phone to do anything I used to do just like using laptop or desktop for Steeming.

oh I see, well you are more talented than I would be on that phone!

Oh I see, well you
Are more talented than I
Would be on that phone!

                 - janton


I'm a bot. I detect haiku.

Well... because it is easier to handle wherever I am, maybe you should try it once and find how handy it is.. take some picture then make a short post with it .. you can edit anytime you want while using laptop without transfered the pictures first.

howdy this fine Sunday cicisaja! thanks so much for the fine explanation! I may try that soon.

interesting photos for sure! thanks for sharing

well howdy there frejafri! thank you so much for commenting..you say you are a nature person? where are you living now if I may ask?