How to Choose your Faith

in philosophy •  9 years ago  (edited)

It seems my last post on Why I gave up Christianity sparked some serious debate. My father, @stan, responded with a post on why he will never give up Christianity and my mother sent me an email titled “Hell and Damnation”. Like I said earlier, my maturing beliefs has made things awkward. I know they love me, and I love them, but these kinds of discussions can come between people.

A thank you to Christians

I would like to thank all of the Christians that are genuinely concerned and who have taken the time to engage in the discussion. I know that your concern about my own beliefs comes from a place of love. Your prayers are appreciated (for those who actually follow through).

I want you all to know that my own posts have love as the foundation. A love for people, a love for God, and a love for the truth. Love is what unites us and if we can keep that perspective then the discussions we have can be productive, non-judgmental, and in alignment with God.

Testing of Faith

One of the outcomes of the discussion was the stance that God is testing our faith. If we fail to believe then we have failed the test.

Everyone who reads the Bible either believes it or doesn’t. This is God’s explicitly stated intent.
It’s a filter. You get to filter yourself out by deciding you’d rather invent your own rules and philosophy.

Based upon this position, anyone who never has the opportunity to take the test fails. I simply chose to adopt the fate of everyone who was not exposed to the test. I chose this route because there is no compelling evidence that the test is real.

Choosing what to Believe

Given that everyone agrees that everything boils down to a matter of faith in unprovable assertions, then on what basis should we choose our faith? After all, we all must believe something and we all believe something that is unprovable. What makes one unprovable belief better than another?

I went back and forth on what to believe. It ultimately comes down to utility. What belief empowers or disempowers my life today. What we believe has a profound influence in how we perceive our reality and what actions we take. If you believe everyone is out to get you, then you will adopt paranoid behavior. If you believe no one values what you say, then you will be shy and withdrawn.

Confirmation bias impacts us in profound ways. It means we reinterpret everything we see based upon what we already believe. This in turn changes our perception of reality and ultimately impacts how we act.

If we are aware of confirmation bias and we are aware of a menu of unprovable beliefs then we can adopt a method for choosing what to believe.

Suppose you believe the world is going to end tomorrow. Chances are you wouldn’t be at work today! Suppose you believe you will die at age 24, chances are your mind will cause your body to commit suicide. In each case there was an unprovable and unfalsifiable belief. In each case the belief directly impacted your quality of life.

Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thorn-bushes, or grapes from briers. — Luke 6:44

In the same way, each belief can be judged by its own fruit. Does belief in an external God cause you to take actions that enhance your life? Does belief in the Bible help you make decisions that enhance your life?

There are many subconscious side effects of belief. Your beliefs can and do impact you in ways that are not obvious. They allow you to shift blame and responsibility.

God will Save Me

Actions are proof of Faith

Are you willing to act on your faith. Every time you disobey the Bible you are proving by your actions that you don’t really believe it. If there was certainty that sin would yield death, then people would be as likely to sin as they are to jump off a cliff.

What does it mean if you continue to sin? What does it mean if you don’t treat every allegation that something you are doing is sinful seriously? Is your faith real?

What does it mean to believe in Christ and how does one prove they have sufficient belief?

The bible addresses this:

Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good 
thing must I do to get eternal life?”

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. 
“There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep
 the commandments.”

 “Which ones?” he inquired.

 Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit 
  adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 
  honor your father and mother,’c and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.”

 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, 
 sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have 
 treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, 
 because he had great wealth.

 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard 
 for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 
 again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye 
 of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

Reading this passage it becomes very clear what anyone who really believes in the bible should do. Jesus basically says it is almost impossible for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God. When the stakes are eternal life vs eternal damnation would anyone who truly believes the bible want to risk failing over something as trivial as your standard of living today?

Every christian I have met has their own rationale on how to interpret this. They are convinced it isn't literal and thus it must be possible to enter the kingdom of heaven while being rich. By today's standards almost everyone in the developed world is rich.

Ultimately what we learn is that Christianity isn't about actual belief, but merely professed belief. People act in ways that are compatible with the bible based upon their real beliefs that are mostly independent from the bible. Why should we choose to believe something espoused by others whose own actions confirm their disbelief?

Labels

For a long time I chose to call myself Christian and simply adopted an interpretation of the Bible that I felt was compatible with what I really believe. This choice allowed me to fit in with existing social circles. I would use words, like “God” and “Spirit” and “Prayer”, that had different meanings to me than to the people who heard them. Even Jesus used this approach when he said “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and unto God that which is God’s”. People hear what they want to hear and see what they want to see.

I decided to abandon these labels because it didn’t feel honest or truthful to me. Who knows, maybe I am the one who passed the test of the bible and properly interpreted the true meaning. Meanwhile everyone else has adopted a wrong interpretation. Unfortunately, debate will not yield any useful outcome when the core axioms are articles of faith.

Conclusion

The difference between me and others is that I attempt to be honest about what I believe and I choose to be intentional. If believing in the integrity of the bible produces the best fruit in your life, then by all means go for it. It is clear that not-believing has born some bitter fruit in my life. Divorce, loss of friends, and distance from family. On the other hand, that fruit could just as easily be blamed on their beliefs. I instead look at fruit that is independent from other people’s beliefs. It is here that I see major improvements in my life.

When faced with a menu of unprovable and unfalsifiable beliefs, I pick the belief that produces the best fruit in my life. If that means believing in magic unicorns, then I will do it!

I can measure and verify fruit and that is all that matters.

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I have upvoted both dan's and stan's posts on this topic.

It is a certainty that both are being honest and giving their best interpretation of the situation we find ourselves in as humans. Beyond that, it is also quite possible that two seemingly contradictory interpretations of external reality are both right! And a unified vision may emerge (given the good will of us all).

We are going through a time of transition. As the old world collapses and a new one forms, our experience will depend on what our beliefs have us project on to the evolving panorama coalescing in consensus reality. I am quite sure that people inches away from each other will be having a very different experience of what is manifesting. It is apparent to me that both dan and his father will be experiencing outward reality from places of love. Others may not be so lucky and may cower in fear or lash out in anger and despair.

The important reality - the One that really counts - is within.

At the core - once we penetrate the onion layers of doubt, shame, fear, disgust, terror... - we will all find Love.

The Kingdom of Heaven is within you :-) Luke 17:21

The Kingdom of Heaven is within you :-) Luke 17:21
Hi, I appreciate your enthusiasm but please don't take that statement out of context. It actually is referring to those who follow Jesus and put their trust for eternal salvation solely in him. Jesus himself is the eternal life and abides in those who put their hope in him and his finished work on the cross. Jesus would strongly object to your view and the way you're using his words. He taught an worldview derived from the Holy Scripture. Don't you think so?

Are you speaking from experience?

"Jesus would strongly object to your view"
Jesus would, or you do?

Are you a jail-house convert?

Please don't take it personal, but I am absolutly sure Jesus would disagree with you. I have been a follower of Jesus for 16 years now and am quite familiar with his teachings.

He taught what we call today the judeo-christian worldview and claimed to be the way, the truth and the live. No one comes to the father but through him. He thaught that humans are depraved and need to be spiritually born again through faith in him as the divine Son of God and so on:

Joh 3:5 ISV
Jesus answered, "Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

To answer you questions:
I am not a jail house convert but nevertheless I've experienced a somewhat dramatical conversion.

Get thee behind me, Satan.

That are Jesus' words to Peter who just heard Jesus fortell his own imminent suffering and crucifixion. Peter wanted to prevent it and Jesus rebuked him that way.

Isn't my interpretation regarding the Kindom true and consistent with Jesus' teaching? I'm open to correction.

Joh 8:45 But it is because I speak the truth that you don't believe me.

  ·  9 years ago (edited)

Yes!

Yes! :))

In discussions about our changing beliefs, my wife often tells me not to say I'm no longer a Christian, but to embrace that I am and others aren't really. I've always taken issue with this because who am I to judge? As you said,

Who knows, maybe I am the one who passed the test of the bible and properly interpreted the true meaning. Meanwhile everyone else has adopted a wrong interpretation. Unfortunately, debate will not yield any useful outcome when the core axioms are articles of faith.

I too really appreciated both this post and @stan 's. The honesty is refreshing, despite disagreement.

I was raised as a "missionary kid" (think preacher's kid in a foreign country). I saw the ugly underbelly of religion, along with wonderful memories of great people willing to sacrifice much for the good of others. The hypocrisy and even evil done in God's name drove me to bitterness and anger for years.

My journey eventually took me to a deeper relationship with God, a somewhat different theological path, and ultimately, a real disdain for religion and admiration for faith and intellectual honesty.

My own study of the Bible led me to shed old beliefs I found unsubstantiated in Scripture and adding new practices that felt more consistent with the example I saw of Jesus.

Each of us has to wrestle with the BIG questions of life. And even more so the older we get...I have strong opinions but I sure value the beauty of the struggle and the desire for authenticity.

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We must be on the same wavelength: I just published this this in religion. Thankyou for respectfully sharing your beliefs (twice).

@dantheman I'm an atheist who survived deep mind Christian programming as a child.
I commend you on your bravery and independent thinking skills.
As an 8 year-old child, I conducted a series of tests to prove/disprove the existence of God, as defined by the adults in my community. Needless to say, all my tests negated the existence of their "God" and I've been an atheist ever since.
If anyone asks me what my religion is, I just say, "the unknown". No one can argue with that.

HERE'S SOMETHING THAT VERY FEW PEOPLE DISCUSS:

If Buddha or Jesus Christ had been a devout follower of the existing religions and didn't pursue creative thinking, we wouldn't have the Buddhist or Christian faiths. It's best to create your own out of your independently concluded thoughts than to follow any strict dogma. If you want to build a legacy, create your own religion.
We are similar because I too:
"When faced with a menu of unprovable and unfalsifiable beliefs, I pick the belief that produces the best fruit in my life. If that means believing in magic unicorns, then I will do it!"
Great post, Dan!

Sorry to just butt in but Jesus was a devout follower of an already existing religion. Jesus was a Jew and a teacher in the Jewish custom. He's actually a fulfillment or culmination of a lot of Jewish tradition from almost all the way back to their origin. Jesus didn't intent to start his own religion, he simply tried to bring people back to the foundational truths about the Jewish faith that already existed at the time. There were plenty of times he made direct reference to Jewish beliefs and customs and left their teachers dumbfounded.

This kind of discussion is something I've actually discussed a lot with my wife and a few close friends. I've been on a journey of breaking down all my instruction and learning what I can from as close to the source as I can, so I've had to ask these questions... Who do I believe Jesus is? Why do I believe it? What does the Bible actually say? Does that look anything like what I was taught? What about my faith makes it different from the others? Am I giving other faith communities a fair chance?

I'm not trying to change your opinion, I just wanted to share because I like the question you raised. I'm not nearly as concerned with convincing you about Jesus and his Father as I am living the way they instructed me to, and that's to love you the way have loved me.

@bible

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard
for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.
again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye
of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

@dantheman

Jesus basically says it is almost impossible for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.

We must take into account more than one sentence of the bible to have a better understanding...
for example here it is crucial to read the very next sentences...

@bible

Matthew 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

...I think no more comments are needed from me...

Dan, your mother should not be reading your every post, that's unfortunate!

Hi Dan I'm a little late in this discussion but I wanted to commend you on your attempts a critical thinking. As I've said before, I'm the daughter of a crazy evangelical who thank goodness is dead now, good riddance. I've been an atheist for a very long time and I study Radiant Mind (secular buddhism) My beliefs are simple: My life is better when I exercise, eat well (favorite things to do) make art, music, be nice to people, make my friends laugh, help others, go on adventures and stay away from crazy people :)

Although it is impossible to falsify the Abstract God hypothesis, that does not really apply to a specific deity of a specific religion. Of course we cannot prove that there is no supernatural being.

Here are some more evidence:

  • religions make empirical and falsifiable claims:
    • pope is called infalible;
    • christ didn't came back;
    • sacred texts contradict experience and history;
    • although claiming to transcend worldly knowledge, as science advances over some field, religious knowledge seems to abandon it;
  • both religious and atheists behave too similarly;
  • the miracles "ceased" when the means to register them were improved;
  • very often the faith of the people is different from the faith of the priests (this is certainly true in catholicism);
  • faith is usually required and disbelief is usually punished;
  • there are thousand of competing incompatible faiths (therefore it must be possible that they emerge without being right);
  • articles of faith usually correspond to human desires, fears and prejudices;

I agree the fruits are important, but yet truth matters. Religions have caused wars, slowed the progress of science and medicine, destroyed lives of many. If they are false, it is very important that people know it.

Well said. It's important for spiritual answers/best ideas to actually make sense. I actually just ranted a little on this the other day:
https://steemit.com/life/@sykochica/screw-all-the-labels-i-m-more-complex-than-a-word-or-two-who-i-am-can-t-fit-on-a-bumper-sticker

Thanks for the good read!

what a great post... It seems believers believe, but on their own terms.. My own personal God..

Hey @dantheman, I just wanted to say I relate a lot to your story (was raised Mormon and left 5 years ago) and hold a lot of respect for your intellectual courage and honesty.