Well Gang he got me. Was worried for a while asked questions but never heard back. Anyhuh @GrumpyCat downvoted a post I used a 3.5 day+ bot on, even though the post was same day. I then called him a piece of shit and went on one of my rants. I also tagged all the non GC, Grumpycat, bots to inquire if they would insure against Grumpycat, none responded from what I saw.
As a Free Market guy, I like how Milton and Rose' son David Friedman discusses how in an anarchic society one could have polycentric law where there can be localities with and without the deathpenalty and when there is a conflict of laws/ jurisdictions one side could pay and compensate the other side for the interference with liberty. Perhaps the 5th Amendment was supposed to accomplish this?? at around 49 min and 50 sec
But so No bots have responded so looks like Grumpy Cat wins. I shall not purchase from bots that do 3.5+
Now we can get into the philosophy of it, but it looks like my opinion and power doesn't really matter yet, hopefully someday soon I will have Grumpy's power to cybernetically adjust steem to my desired targets subject to my perceived self interest/utility function and my values or whatever motivates me to move.
We can get into what Grumpy's goal might be, perhaps turn people off, or perhaps he really wants to accomplish his goal, or perhaps something more sinister. But facts is seems the rulers on steem have decided
"Anarchism- anarchy is a tendency in human development that seeks to identify structures of hierarchy, domination, authority and others that constrain human development. And then it seeks to subject them to a very reasonable challenge- it asks the structure to "justify it's self"! The structure should demonstrate that it's "legitimate"in special circumstances or conceivably in principal. And if it can't meet that challenge, it should be dismantled! Not just dismantled but reconstructed from below."
Noam Chomsky
For now seems Grumpycat has demonstrated his legitimacy. As publius Syrus asserted concerning the subject nature of value, looks like Grumpy is willing to pay more to have steem the way he wants it than others are willing to not have it that way.
"everything is worth what a purchaser will pay."
Now we could get into a much broader discussion of What steem should be and the nature of downvotes. I personally am opposed to most if not all downvotes. I think we should try to decide if steem is to be a marketplace of ideas/a currency/or some like publishing platform with a certain format. I think for all three the sooner we decide what we want steem to be the sooner things will become more regular and incentives for people to act in desired ways should be around more stable prices. If steem network goal is to be marketplace of ideas or currency, then I think best to just eliminate down votes except for spam. Downvotes hurt lots of innocents and can make people leave who could have been great additions.
Downvotes also break people down when steem in my opnion should build them up and catalyze voluntary association. If steem is to be a currency also think best to eliminate downvotes. Alternative I think what would be best is having different payout weights so if people identify purely investment 0 proof of brain they can do so safely at x weight, or people can do normal good quality posts at y weight, or not sufficiently good quality posts at z, and if people try to improperly self categorize their weights then take punitive action for defection in this prisoner's dilemma. Now if Steem is meant to only have sufficiently good content that metts certain expecations perhaps ok to have downvotes, but again I think my weighting system would be better and help create the desired incentives people claim they want.
Humans are very dumb and easily controllable. Perhaps instead of focusing on proper post payout amount or other nearly impossible things to objectively quantify an ontological artifact that is tied to a certain time/space. Perhaps we should focus on systemic level solutions to these problems.
The one thing I will say about these little experiments with people like Grumpycat is shows that people can affect structures and systems without coercion--unless you consider a downvote coercion, which I would not necessarily disagree with. But regardless, one thing statists misrepresent about reality is that autopoietic system like the beauty of the "invisible hand" do not necessarily lead to chaos everytime, and as frequently been shown via failed state interventions, centralized control especially for interventions like price setting often leads to the opposite effects like exacerbating shortages.
Thanks for your time and eyeballs. Hopefully we can help steem finally settle all these goddamned rules so normal people will join in mass. Even if it isn't 100% the way I want it, we need to clean up this ecosystem for mass diffusion and make whatever rules there are clear and as uniformly enforced as possible so they achieve the claimed point of rules which is to adjust and regulate conduct due to some set goal or value.
What is going on is exactly as below :
FD.
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good luck with teh crusade, I myself am only concerned with the collateral damage, and may try to save them for their first time, obviously a 2nd bailout would not be efficient.
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anyone who is over 60 rep and has some SP need to get together on this. Its a lot of female users and people just learning on steemit. He is using us /them as pawns. ANd destroying the livelyhood of new users!!
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yea, hope to take the collateral damage off the field here soon, but no further. I will not subsidize the upvote bots as they profit.
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Not sure how stopping him will subsidize bots?
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Looks like since he can't attack the Bots, then he attacks their customer base. At least I am not getting involved in his fights against @sneaky-ninja, after he hitted me
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good writing and good story
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thanks glad you enjoyed it, hopefully we as a community can come to a consensus soon and end this collateral damage
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Well thought out, and I admire your bravery in writing this post. You raise some very valid points. Sorry to hear about the downvote, you did not deserve it.
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Thanks, hope you are doing well and finding your audience, hit me up so I can help you find your audience if you have special posts, my other comment told you can contanct me same name on steem chat or thefatkat discord
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Thank you! You are very kind. I just posted a drawing if you want to take a look!
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I've been here a couple months and the insincerity is the first thing that stood out. There are people who share thoughtful comments and you can tell they're just trying to get a vote, but at least they put some time and effort into what they're saying.
The group that bugs me are basically e-beggars with lazy, low-effort "thank you for posting"-type content. It's like chicks fishing for compliments and attention on Insta, but instead of putting SOME work into a cute photo they just snap a pic of themselves laying in bed, messed up hair and face pushed back showing off the double chin.
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yea, hopefully this part of the culture changes somehow, but some people upvote comments that have no value which incentivizes the cycle.
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I can’t stand Grumpy Cat on here!
Total POS
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yea, he's a charachter. But 6 day upvote posts may not have be sustainable. Not sure. hopefully we might be able to get the collateral damage off the battle field.
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This cat is very frightening, visible from his very sharp eyes like to pounce on his prey
@zulfahmii
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yep, but cats can also be playful and friendly
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That's right what you say and the cat is one of the most benign animals it is not.
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Thx for the post.
I know it hurts a lot to be downvoted for something u have worked for..
I have seen many of your posts they are all great..
So i have started to follow u and also upvoted u.
I know as a newbie my upvote wont make a difference but u deserve it
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thanks everything helps, hope you find your audience and keep it up, good job making meaningful comment!!
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Awesome post.. see u again...keep it up
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What did you find awesome about it, some people downvote to vague comments that can be posted to any post
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Legitimacy? No. This is not legitimate power.
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depend how you define legitimate, I mean no one will stop him especially if the bots dont care even about teh collateral damage. I hope Grumpy Cat will be ok with me trying to save the collateral damage, he seems reasonable as long as he gets to make things into the vision he wants, and it is his power and he has earned it.
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It is his illegitimate power and he has not earned it. He is altering the rights of others without their permission, which is what makes his power illegitimate.
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If these are rights why are they not in the algorhithm so they are not up to the whim of a grumpycat? You know my opinion. And I agree steem would be best to transform these institutionalized anti social interactions. But if does not then perhaps someone will fork it and make it work to uplift our world run amok.
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The system was built on libertarian values, with the extremes of libertarianism being anarchy. The non-aggression principle wasn't adhered to when the developers included punishment via flagging, so certain libertarian concepts are missing.
No one has the legitimate right to stop Grumpycat any more than Grumpycat has the right to stop other people. It's what anarchists think they want until they see it happening.
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interesting ideas. I think Dr. Friedman had it right that we need to get the wrong people to do the right thing
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@grumpycat has stated many times and with his down votes of why. Disagreement on payout is a valid down vote. Disagreement on abuse is a valid downvote. @grumpycat has stated many times that the 3.5 days upvote is in his opinion abuse of the reward pool. Use of non compliant bots by individuals is considered abuse and reward pool theft thus reward disagreement on the part of @grumpycat. There is absolutely no reason to feel "sorry" for any individual that @grumpycat flags. He does not care if you are a Rep of 25 or 75 he will downvote as he said a "random" bot abuser. He has done what he stated he would do.
No such thing for either of these statements. Grumpy cat warned the bot owners what would happen, he has made post to let people know what will happen, if bot owners did not inform their clients that they may be downvoted/flagged by @grumpycat, then it is the bot owner that is responsible for the collateral damage.
@grumpycat invested his money and powered that investment up. There is nothing illegitimate to the power he controls. Anyone that wants the same power that he has can invest, or purchase, or rent it, from any number of places.
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Wrong - the abuse of illegitimate power by the like of @grumpycat isn't something to applaud. You'll learn that for yourself, someday.
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hes demonstrated that with money he can attack the helpless in an attempt to manipulate him
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me this what i lways tell to the people i sign up on steemit, not to comment on anything unless you've read it. People work hard on Steemit and it's frustrating when others comment without knowing what they're commenting on.
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Yes, dont understand what this has to do with my post?
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I agree with your write up nice post @fatkat
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Thanks, hope you are finding your audience and making the most out of the new year here on steem!
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yes friend am trying, am new here i still need someone to put me through your support and advice is welcome.thanks
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good luck, recommend not begging people downvote that instead tell people cool stuff you do for you, steem or your community.
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thanks friend i will start working on it i really appreciate you
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Steemit all the way.
Great post tnx for sharing I just upvoted.
Check out my new posts if you can plz
upvote resteem comment @gclipse
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No, recommend you not beg if you want to do well here, people downvote begging. Hope the New Year has been going well best of luck!!
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Similar Thing Happened To Me But On Other Matter ! I posted a meme on @dmania & @zombee just downvoted for a reason "He was getting too many similar posts !" So i left him a text & didn't got any replies yet .. So I felt even poor than a minnow !
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sorry man, hope things are looking up. Hopefully we can change this culture and end any collateral damage!!
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I don't think these whales understand this .. BTW wtf why do they allow bots to grow if these groups doesn't want to make Steem like self governed shits .. at least government is chosen by people .. here on Steem whales are government..
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I dont know about people choosing government. Taxation is theft bro. Hopefully we can rule ourselves someday and be free to make our own decions. Hope the weekend ended well for you bud!!
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Nope .. cryptos are creating an anonymous govt .. I felt this after joining steemit... Same thinking supplies not applied here .. whales here are so arrogant that they don't let others grow !!! Only people like @haejin grow here
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yea, there seeme to be problems, not a fan of downvotes. But still way better than facebook or twitter, way harder to dick over the real fourth estate like assange. Hopefully we can improve steem to make it easier for the masses to join.
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No they won't .. this is just another dobbbbald Trump... Fucking shit government..
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we shall see, hopefully not, but the market seems to be getting more open before. Adapt or fall is the beauty of Shumpeter's creative destruction.
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anonymous ? Nope
Not at all! Everything is on the Blockchain
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you are 100 percent correct. if you are on discord message me @limabeing#2123
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I agree. I haven't been downvoted before but accounts from those who have isn't very pleasant.
Thanks for sharing
Upvoted
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It sucks, hopefully we can transform steem, hope you are finding your audience, best of luck!!
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I didn't realise there was so much politics going on behind the scenes when I joined this place.
This place is becoming almost factional and the desires of the big players are being enforced with sledge hammers/bots.
I should have stayed in my box.
Today's affirmation
I'm not a cat I'm a little fish having an identity crisis.
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yea, everyone usualyl avoids minnows as long as you make meaningful comments and posts you will do fine!! even if you are alive or dead bud
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When I think about the inequality of this system I find the biggest problem is because so few hold the greatest amount of power. Very much like in the real world. The portion of the daily reward pool is unfairly distrubuted to those holding the greatest amount of steem power. If they choose to use that power to downvote they can wreck just about anyones effort to contribute and stop them from earning a piece of the reward pie specific to the post. Is that fixed by removing the downvote?.... Maybe, but I don't think that goes far enough. Huge accounts are still able to consume more of the limited reward pool which has the effect of keeping smaller accounts getting less and reducing growth. I think that would be a better fix by limiting the amount of power one account can use for up or down vote. Put a cap on steem power that is usable toward voting. They could still hold additional steem power but only for the purpose of delegation to other accounts and still profit by selling it based on what the market will pay. Its effect should allow many more accounts to reach said cap. No one wants to hear that said because if would reduce amount of reward earning capability that the big accounts have come to enjoy from all that self voting.
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disagree man, like with capitalism, differntial output should be rewarded differently equal. If it was all equal here the spam would be un manageable. At least the information contained in inequality helps encourage production of good content even if downvotes distrort incentives possibly in negative ways.
Thanks for your ideas, hope things are going well!!
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Thank you for the reply. I certainly want to understand what reasons this idea may not work. That said, I don't think I presented enough information for the idea. I do believe in the capitalism model to improve product. The sp cap I had in mind is large, least 100k sp. So in effect we would not all be equal, just the accounts that reach the cap. Those that do hopefully will be productive for an effort of good content production earnings. More importantly they can keep each other in check. Of course people can buy into that kind of power but I think its less likely if they know earnings are capped and they could not grossly profit or control the system for the expense. It would be a goal or incentive for many to reach that amount of power organically, like yourself. And users that have more sp would have incentive to delegate their extra to help other accounts. Of course they could have multiple accounts and just spread their sp among those and then upvote crap amongst them taking a large share of rewards for poor content. Thats where the downvote could be used effectively from other equal accounts once that abuse was identified. Would be nice if 30% or so of the active users were to reach that cap to have a greater portion of the users collect and defend the top end of rewards. Since its believed and proven in many cases how power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts I am suggesting a method to prune those that reach high levels of controlling power yet still operate under a model that encourages good quality and account growth.
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Sounds interesting. I know Barrington Moore asserted "No bourgeois, No Democracy." More power decentralization could be good but might also enable the military industrial complex or other interests to coop this platform or do so sooner, assuming that isn't already the case. I like price theory. I think prices hold information so not usually a fan of equality or standardization. So long as there is inequality of effort--and effort that people value not just the person doing the thing, I think best to enable people to earn more to do more. Furthermore your system sounds complex and might make people defecting easier, especially if enough people choose to loot the network just for their own good even though they never actually paid in enough human or real capital to justify the rate at which their payout from the network might be.
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I hate that you’ve made me now question my decades long distaste for Noam Chomsky. (I’m in that small group of weirdos who have not only found his political opinions distasteful, but who also find his linguistics theories to be annoying and bad for linguistics as a science. When he derisively dismisses corpus linguistics, it makes me want to throw my head through the drywall.)
And yet...ugh I can’t believe I’m going to admit this...he quote by Chomsky you included as to anarchy being a very human challenging of authority to justify itself...that is one of the best quotes I’ve ever read about anarchy, ever.
For whatever it’s worth, as a matter of political ethics, I don’t think there’s any problem with what this GrumpyCat is doing (from what little I know about him...I really don’t know or care about what the various “Steemit celebrities” do.
But from what little I’ve read about the guy, notwithstanding his political ethicality, within my own, personal, subjective morals, GrumpyCat is too mean-spirited and nasty. He can accomplish his goals without being so insincere and crotchety.
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You dont Like LADD, language acquisiting diagnostic device? Yea the quote is powerful. I think Chomsky is a decent guy a little too far left for me as a minarchist/ ideally voluntarist.
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I’m not fully against the whole universal grammar thing. Some of it seems pretty sensible, like the idea that there is something innate in humans that without which language acquisition is impossible. (Although that’s not a theory as much as it’s a statement of the obvious.)
I’m more or less incensed by Chomsky’s ideas being the catalyst which largely turned linguistics into the “Study of Language Acquisition.”
The field is just overcrowded with research on language acquisition and universal grammar and psycholinguistics, while the linguistic historians, evolutionary linguists, and traditional philologists seem to get shafted on funding, attention, and publications.
So yeah, I’m irrationally bitter about that.
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yea social science is mostly bullshit from my grad school and JD experiences. Most colelge just to keep people occupied for more vacancy chains to help ameliorate technological unemploment, create distortionary incentives and lock people into debt.
Would love to read some of your research if you do anything. Sapir Whorf pretty cool, I think language definitely structures thought.
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or can at least structure thought that isn't 100% just logic/ vector information
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Haha I think we would have some great conversations because Sapir-Whorf is another one of those theories that I think is probably right sometimes and probably wrong other times, although I’m not fully sure when it’s right or wrong. (Read stuff by a Boritsky or Bordisky or something that had data showing that some tribe’s different linguistic patterns for relating to spatial concepts resulted in their thinking and understanding of spatial relationships very different then, say, speakers of Proto-Indo-European descendants.
But then, like 5 minutes later, I came across another paper (that I somehow still have bookmarked but don’t know where’s I saved the actual paper inside the firewall) which studied some Mayans and czme yo with data that had the exact opposite conclusion showing that differentiation in conceptualizing spatial relationships is probably a result of just having different landmarks and cultural ideas formed by and about those landmarks, with language being only a very small factor, if at all.
So who knows?
The one definitively good thing to come out of Sapir-Whorf was that movie Arrival.
Some really bad linguistics (and some really good too) but an amazing sci-fi flick
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0010027702000094?via%3Dihub
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havent seen that. I mean there is definitely a most efficient way to structure information, like I think google google translate translates by having it's own 3rd universal meta language that structures the information in one language in a way that doesnt distort it so that if they can create the matrices between both of the two languages and teh 3rd then can automate all things. Yea I think I read some research but I forgot the spatial stuff, I think there was discussion of colors and Sapir Whorf, not doing academia currently but maybe again someday.
Way I see it is it's likely the only "universal" language is the most efficient structuration like the google 3rd language. It is not innate at all but remains external but just as McLuhan assserts the medium is the message. But then for more abstract language things they are less universal thus for how the ontological constructs of language then becoming an input in perception.
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Your last paragraph is perfect. It's pretty much just a better way of putting my understanding of how language works. You might as well have gone into my head, rearranged all the ideas, separated out all the useless chaff, and then put it back together in a way that is digestible and makes sense.
Especially the part about there being a universal language that is really something that's necessarily efficient but is still something external to the mind, and not some inbuilt magical "language mind power" inside everyone's brain.
Although, I guess, to be fair to the hardcore universal grammar types, they would probably then just ask "Well what is it that makes it possible to have a single language that can be the most efficient? If it's the most efficient across languages, then doesn't that imply there is something internal to the human mind itself that makes this trait something universal to all languages."
To that I'd probably go with the idea that it's not the human brain this tells us anything about (or mind, if you're into the whole dualism thing), but about the structure of language.
Which they'd then say something about that being the same thing because "language is always and everywhere a brain thing."
But so is every other human activity. Just because statistically 100% of people perceive, say, pain, it doesn't tell us that there is a specific "pain part of the mind universal to all humans." Pain could very well come from all types of different combinations of human interactions with the external world and the the way the nervous system (among all the others) proceeds in its work translating those interactions into something perceptible by a conscious thinking individual.
But I'm also not a professional linguist, so I very well could be completely wrong on all this.
In any event, you have gained yourself a regular reader.
Hope we can continue conversations like these. I don't get a lot of this in my "off-chain" life for any number of reasons, so I enjoy it immensely here.
Thanks!
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meeeeeee-ouuuuchhh!!!! Wonder what @catfacts thinks of all this??
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Many cats cannot properly digest cow's milk. Milk and milk products give them diarrhea.
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Straight from the @catfacts mouth! You are the best bot on this platform!!
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Cheetahs do not roar, as the other big cats do. Instead, they purr.
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This post has received gratitude of 6.88 % from @appreciator thanks to: @fatkat.
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Congratulations @fatkat, this post is the ninth most rewarded post (based on pending payouts) in the last 12 hours written by a Superuser account holder (accounts that hold between 1 and 10 Mega Vests). The total number of posts by Superuser account holders during this period was 1315 and the total pending payments to posts in this category was $10991.55. To see the full list of highest paid posts across all accounts categories, click here.
If you do not wish to receive these messages in future, please reply stop to this comment.
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Nice and Awesome Post.
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kind of a spam comment recommend making it more meaningful if you want to be successful here
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Funny post!
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Thanks glad you enjoyed it, hope steem is going well for you!!
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Point taken
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Better than me upvoting you I can tell you people frequently downvote begging. You clearly wrote this so hopefully you will be ok. But perhaps instead of begging tell people what you are doing to help steem and/or your community and/or your life. And not beg and you just might find that gets much more traction around here than begging. Therer are 7 billion people I could use an upvote for and you give me 0 reason for it to be you.
Please don't respond begging again. If you take my advice you just might do well on steem.
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its ONE THING if he attacks WHALES that already have money and post memes for 3000 dollars. IT IS ANOTHER THING when he downvotes AN AWESOME NEW USER WHO WRITES AN AMAZING PEICE ON SUICIDE!!!!!
https://steemit.com/life/@zipporah/choosing-life
This is clearly not spam and he is going to keep destroying peoples hopes.. this is WAAAY WOrse than bernie.. where is the outrage?!?! we need it now more than ever. He cant just force people not to use the bots that he doesnt want them to use. he cant be the boss of how they use them either. he is a real bully. he must be stopped!!
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:(
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Thats the main reason i have been scared to use those upvote bots. I just use the 3.5 ones. But still keep in mind he gave multiple examples of people just commenting "." 50 times and having 20$ upvotes on their comments in the last hours during the payout besically stealing money from everyone. I think thats why he is doing it.
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what happened bruh
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@grumpycat is a steem bot?
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please am a good writer and i am new can i get a resteem on this my post
it a drama you will love its emotional https://steemit.com/writing/@roselinee/jane-the-fault-in-the-star-a-true-tale-season-1
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No, do not beg. People downvote begging, you can be succesful if you make meaningful comments and posts!1
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