RE: What a joke

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What a joke

in politics •  6 years ago 

Fuck Marx. Das Kapital is garbage. I suggested a book by an anarchist and anthropologist, not a Marxist.

Historically, primitive societies had gift economies, like the arrangements you might find in rural areas today. When my neighbor needs something, I just let him have it, then I know that he will help me when I need something. When I need a tool that my neighbor has, I borrow it from him rather than buy one, and I let him borrow my tools too. This has been called the "communism of everyday life." It's not communal ownership, just the principle "from each according to ability, to each according to need." This gift economy thing was the norm in primitive societies. Barter didn't emerge as a norm until after monetary systems already developed. (This assertion is based on archeological evidence and ancient written records, not mere speculation.)

Monetary systems were created by primitive States. A king would send his soldiers to take over neighboring communities, they'd loot and take all the gold and precious metals. The king would then melt down the metals and mint them into coins, then he'd give the coins to his soldiers. At the same time, the king would impose a tax upon the newly conquered subjects and demand that the tax be paid in the newly minted coins. This, of course, meant that the people had to aquire coins in order to pay taxes, thereby creating a demand for the soldiers' coins. The people would now accept the coins as payment for goods and services. In reality, money and markets are created by governments. The government created the money by spending it into existence when paying the soldiers and it created markets by demanding payment of taxes in government money.

Graeber's book is a good one, but there's tons of other books on the subject.

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I wasn't suggesting you were a marxist! lol

Historically, primitive societies had gift economies, like the arrangements you might find in rural areas today. When my neighbor needs something, I just let him have it, then I know that he will help me when I need something.

I grew up on a farm , in a farming family, so yeah, I know how it works.
There is nothing for free though.
If you don't return the favors, (or other don't feel you are pulling your weight you won't get much help.)

It's capitalism just without a coin. The same dynamics apply, just that the payback is more subtle.

For sure, money makes it less personal, but that's due to the success of a community and lack of personal accountability through growing populations.

'Non money capitalism' is only possible through personal relationships.
We don't live in that world any longer, so money is the handiest 'favor' token for everyone to use.

In reality, money and markets are created by governments. The government created the money by spending it into existence when paying the soldiers and it created markets by demanding payment of taxes in government money.

Markets are created long before government. Governments theft of people property (or asset - tax) seems to be the way it goes, I agree - which lends itself to it being a 'natural' authority process in play.
'Might is right', and all that bs.
The fact this dynamic as emerged independently throughout pretty much all civilizations, tells me it's a system that people kind of desire...
Security in exchange for money.

On a small scale , it can, and has worked, - on a larger one we get fascism and communism..

We are still the tribal animal that settled 50,000 years ago, just with better furs and huts. Oh, and a brain that tells us we aren't.
(and their wifi was a joke! lol)

Gift economies aren't markets, unless you are just defining all economies as markets. But then full communism is still a market. So, communism would be capitalism?

Gift economies are markets (try growing up on farm, using this system - they are most definitely markets - value exists on peoples time and borrowed goods).
It's more subtle, but no less real.
Money is just a clearer 'delineate-or' of said time and borrowed goods..

Markets are a free exchange . Anything less is not a market. It's crapitalism or communsim.
Communism is not a free market. The price discovery mechanism can't function properly with any false pricing...
(Crapitalism is communism wearing drag)

A market is a system of trade. Two people exchanging isn't necessarily a market. Informal exchange based on gift economy arrangements isn't technically a market. It's only a market when there's a system in place, like a monetary system or a barter system. Two people trading or bartering isn't a market in and of itself.

A market - when two parties come together and exchange something, for something.

It's only a market when there's a system in place, like a monetary system or a barter system.

A market requires no system in place, just two willing parties.

You misunderstand fundamentally what a market is.
It is a space of exchange. That's is.
(An authority is not required - or even part of, what constitutes a market)

Two people trading or bartering isn't a market in and of itself.

Yes it is.

In a gift economy, the exchange isn't even trade. It's a asymmetrical exchange with a loose, non-binding, informal expectation that the other person will return the favor. It's not a contract or trade, but a favor with expectation of reciprocation. That's not the same thing as a market.

It looks like you are wrong here, to be quite honest. Are you sure you are debating with an open mind and an open heart? It seems like you are trying very hard to redefine terms, or use incredibly specific definitions, rather than actually comprehend the truth of the issue at hand. I recommend you look at this with new eyes. You are clearly wearing the lenses of indoctrination: Visible from outside you, but never from your point of view.

nice way to attack a person and not an argument lol

followed.
Sane people are nice..

"Social Democracy, Left-Libertarianism"

not sure your bio adds up. Although I agree with your points here overall, although you should probably not bother talking to fascists

You know, it is entirely possible to do social democracy within an anarchist framework. I'm sceptical of full anarchism, but left-libertarian ideas are mostly on point.
https://steemit.com/anarchism/@ekklesiagora/on-anarchist-social-democracy-taxation-welfare-and-anarchy