I'm thankful for the fact that linear rewards now allows vote buying. I'm concerned tho that the shitposters are gonna win the day. If you love steem. If you love this place. then right now I encourage you to go out and vote buy on your best posts!
But aggroed vote buying is shady!
Well, vote buying isn't shady or not shady. it's just a thing that's allowed on the platform because of hf19. Some people may have written it will be a "clusterfuck," but no one listened at the time.
So, now we have linear rewards and HF 19 (and a rewards pool at 700k down from 2 million). If you votebuy you're going to get more rewards. If you don't someone else will. Turns out the people that don't want to use them are people that think of their post quality as high. if none of the high quality authors use them then it's easier for the shit posters to vote buy for less money because there is no competition. therefor the shitposters win.
If you don't use the bid bots you're helping the shit posters scam money!
That's right. it's as much a problem of you not using them on good posts as it is on shitposters using them on shit posts. We could also consider changing hf19 and linear rewards, but until then... you're supporting the shitposters by not buying votes.
quick upside
Utopian-io relies on hf19 to work. So if we kill hf19 we likely harm that quite a bit. @minnowsupport is able to offer rewards to minnows on brand new authors and that works because of hf19. So many fun choices to make.
Don’t be that guy/gal/furry that doesn’t use it and losses it.
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Kubby on this platform we recognize no less than 18 state approved genders pronouns. Please include at least 15 more.
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Okay, but furries is the all inclusive club for those 18 plus gender pronouns. C’mon aggy, put on your onesie and get with the times.
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In my defense. I'm never out of my onesie.
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Excellent, I really want a group picture of the leadership team in our uniforms
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:)
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We are all post millennial furries? I feel like I'm missing something here
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My friend ^^^^^
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lmbo @kubbZ! :D
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Did you see how hard I was working trying I get an upvote on my comment and failed, tough crowed 😂
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Check my logs. I boostered you for 6 bucks.
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Ain't much, but I got U, Baby-Gurl ;)
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Sorry, I love you Kubby and know this was not what you meant... So not directed at you.
But I find this upvoted to the top as stifling of true discussion and dialogue. There is real discussion happening and a furries comment is at the top with a 100X greater upvote than the nearest comment. Depressing.
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up-vote despite the misspelling LOL!!!
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Lol, it’s fun either way! Flurries unite!
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I meant "losses" :p Instead of loses...
At least you did not say "Looses" It! :D
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bahaha, you are so silly.
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This comment has received a 14.22 % upvote from @booster thanks to: @aggroed.
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I am that gal. It is this ridiculous thing I have called "integrity." I believe uncurated votes will be the demise of this platform, so I do not solicit uncurated votes.
I also do not cast ballots for the lesser of two evils.
I do not justify screwing my neighbors because "I am just doing my job."
And I do not have a great deal of respect for people who think I am an idiot for doing what I believe is right even if it costs me money.
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the only people who benefit from bid bots are the sellers
take a majority of the curation away from the rest due to amount of SP in bots if everyone used there would be little curation rewards for anyone else.
if a content creator joins and trys to compete with users who upvote with bots $100+ how long till they make enough to be able to afford max bids 2 months 3 months.
im sure if things continue bots SP and amount given per vote will rise over time further blocking outside users from developing on the platform without paying bots $100's to be seen
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You have collected your daily Power Up! This post received an upvote worth of 0.81$.
Learn how to Power Up Smart here!
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Why can't the bidbot owners do the whole whitelist thing? Add each and every user that is permitted to use their bid bot? It is time consuming, I know. But since they are making money off of the bidbot, an investment in time is not too much to ask.
I don't use bid bots because too often 1 too many or 10 too many people enter right at the end and cause a loss for everyone......everyone EXCEPT the owner. The OWNER loves it when the bidders dilute it because then they get more for their votes than they are worth.
And since I know that nothing less than probably $20 or $50 ever breaks into hot or trending, using the bid bots will not help your post unless you risk a lot of capitol. For new users that isn't possible. They spend maybe 10sbd at most and effectively throw away about 20%....or more.
So....thank you for the satire, I will not be using those services.
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90% of the time people use my bot they make a profit, even after factoring in curation rewards. If you think I'm the only one winning, I pay 35,000 steem a month, all the bids get paid back to cover rent. The people using my bot are making out far better than I, I wish I could use my own bot but I won't because of ethical reasons.
Bots are not supposed to be money printing machines, they are supposed to be promotion, but a lot better than "Promote" where you throw up to $300 to get on the top of promoted and get nothing back. Even if you get a loss on the immediate vote back, you will almost always make more in the end due to being on the hot page, our PreVote club, our daily Curation Digest, or the Author of the Day. Even without any of those value adds, having $1-$10 votes on your post will attract far more readers, followers, and votes than $0.01.
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This concept that "having 1-10" will attract more- is a false assumption. I dont look at numbers until after i have read a piece and i dont find thrm based on numbers because i never look at "hot" or "trending" id love to have a steemian survey to see how ppl find posts and what makes them upvote because everyone thinks theyve got it figured out and that pretending to be getting rich is what makes you more rich. I disagree. i think it might boom you for a minute until ppl see that you sux. This is why whales do giveaways . "Oh now im helping you" meanwhile some of those sam ppl will flag you to nothing for having a dissagreement. Idk which bot is yours because i only use free ones. Frankly , i think actual advertising services are better than trying to understand bots as a creative. I just keep trying to do my thing and if serious shitposting prevails (cuz we all know that shitposting is a debateable term) then the site will tank and we all get screwed. So its YOUR job to protect your investment and my job to write and curate well.
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This is the wrong way to look at using bid bots. You might not get on trending but you can easily get on the “hot” list for certain tags and it will get you more views and followers than you would have gotten without the bid bot.
The new followers will add more organic votes to the rest of your posts going forward so using the bid bots provide an ongoing ROI that’s hard to measure directly.
I did this when I started and it really helped me grow my following and post rewards much more quickly than I could have otherwise. I would very much recommend it for everyone.
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I have TRIED the bid bots 3-5 times. And I have used minnowbooster 5-10 times. I have 500+ followers now, and get rarely 20 organic views out of the gate. In 7 days, maybe 25-40 organic views.
So I am glad that your channel grew and you are better off. But maybe the bid bots had nothing to do with that. Even you admit about knowing the bid bot's bids effects are "hard to measure directly".
So atm, still not buying it.
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Blasphemer!!! How dare u speak against the emperor?!?! But all jokes aside...Same em3 same. But what really bothers me is if ppl from a non english soraking country are encouraged to use them. At least with msp we try to train ppl unlike straight bidbots who give no fux and just take ppls money and them flag them when the money goes to someone else....
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That is an aspect that really needs to be considered as well. Thank you for bringing it up.
.....but what is soraking??
And as for speaking against the emperor(may he ever be praised)...I'm still not sure which aspect of his post is meant to be satiracal. So then, if I am even in disagreement.
And I think you meant "speaking"
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I knew i missed a typo. I always spell badly from the phone
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It's only the approach . He made a new bot for msp that has low delegation
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Do you think this platform is only for English language or only for the people from English speaking countries? Sorry, I didn't get you!
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No of course not.
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I think that a lot of ppl online from non-english speaking countries have the odds stacked against them. Esp countries with low gdp.
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Until they get here in hoards and make their own communities. It's always difficult for people in minority everywhere.
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This comment has received a 68.75 % upvote from @kittybot thanks to: @em3.
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No point buying upvotes if your rewards get locked up in SP. The whales get to dump first.
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You mean to tell me that there is no "13 week" waiting period for the "founders club"?
One can also power down a little at a time, info for the peanut gallery ;)
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They don't need to power down at all when they're getting liquid rewards daily to dump creating no demand for the token because it's cheaper to buy upvotes than buy steem
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True, I was just stating that normal dolphins and minnows like us can power down if we fear "dumping" on a larger scale.
How U doing, beanZ? Long time...
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Am OK underground thanks for asking. Need to maintain a level head in all this lol. I do wish the developers would start listening to the community else we'll need new developers and cost all the development for SMT's to restart.
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I'm still learning a LOT, sorry it is such an elementary question, I'm still learning to ask properly as well LOL!!!
Good to see you out and about, give Sir Lunch a fist bump for me when you see him! I believe VOTU was my first follow, back in May of this year! I'm nearing dolphin-hood now, but still a big fat Minnow atm ;)
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I see Bid-Bots, but they don't know they are Bots! :scary:
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Can you explain, please, how hf19 made bidbots and utopian possible?
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Not simple. Rewards are based on a factor called reward shares. reward shares are proportional to Steem Power. The rewards on a post used to be determined by R^2. Now it's just R. The effect of R^2 made it so that it was much more valuable to have many people agreeing on a post and little effect even if just 1 whale liked it. Now, who else values it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is how big of a vote it gets.
If I ran a bidbot before and voted on a post no one else liked it would pay shit. Now if I put money into a bit bot it'll pay. that's because of the shift of exponential rewards to linear rewards that happened in HF19.
that's the quick and dirty version.
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Thank you, I came in shortly after hf19, so I never experienced n2
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Vote buy is dirty business... Both on Steemit and in real life... But alas that do happen in both the world's and the result is shit posters and corrupt politicians win.... Buying vote is to to to shortsightedness , and should be banned altogether... Instead the life of the post can be increased from a week to probably a month... When I post some content and do not get any upvote , I do get an urge to remove the post, as I do not wanna give it for free (it can happen with everyone and as a result steemit can loose it's diverse content quality).. and yes I do not want to get into dirty politics (business) of vote buying, both in real world and virtual.. I did it here for some time... Later realized m not doing any good but just feeding masters belly...
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I agree that vote buying became a necessity, but what do linear rewards and HF19 have to do with it?
In the former constellation it was even more necessary, because getting to the threshold of 0.02$ was even harder.
What am I missing here?
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wait for muh next post! :)
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1.62% @pushup from @fersher
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I love steem is the best I've seen. I know that in a few years it will be the best or one of the best platforms in the world of virtual currencies. up steem.
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Bidbots.. bidbots everywhere..
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Awesomeness ! Upped and resteemed !
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I LOVE your comments with these stickers! Hit me with one on my page one day!
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nice post bro
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This post about terrorist or war? @aggroed?
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Makes Sense, AG!
I think that HF20 might/should include botz-votes at a PERCENTAGE of total take, not the bulk thereof. There are some egregious abuses of the reward pool, I am now just starting to make the $2, $3 and $5 posts and it is without "paid upvotes" for the most part. I do use @ninjawhale but that is 50 upvotes and under 30¢ so it provides exposure over monetary gains. I seem to be getting more organic support these days, but I do get some MSP and SGB votes also. Forgot about those, DUH!
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But how to buy votes?
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Thanks for sharing it @aggroed
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Don't worry, scammers are everywhere. But the real buddies are always on the first row. So, keep steeming.
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I never really thought about vote buying from that angle, but it's true that the "hot" section of Steemit is full of posts that are utterly bad.
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This post has been resteemed by @afm007
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Besides @lovejuice, what’s your favorite bidbot?
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I liked randowhale. RIP.
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LOL, I found out that RANDO Retired, when I got a refund after I investigated a no-vote...
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Great post dear
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Hf19 ??? Aggroed can you explain that
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HF means hardfork. it's like version of the software. Instead of microsoft office 8 we call steem version 19 HF19. HF19 changed the way rewards work so you don't have to have lots of people agree a good post is a good post (or buy lots of votes through Dm to make that happen). you get rewards regardlss of what others think.
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It was an upgrade to the rules of the blockchain.
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This is exactly correct! Additionally, with flagging being a focus of discussion recently I want to mention that flagging is a great solution for bad posts that are promoted via bid bots or otherwise.
If people flag bad posts that someone paid to promote, then they will stop paying to promote them, and then the problem will be solved and the bid bots will be used only for their real purpose which is to promote great content from minnows who don’t have the SP to promote their work any other way.
If anyone wants information or needs help using the bidbots please see http://www.steembottracker.com let me know if you have any questions and I would be happy to help!
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I totally agree here, unfortunately not many can or will do the policing. I wish the parties that had that responsibility could reach further and wider. If the trash that gets submitted to my bot and others was flagged, they would stop abusing them.
I don't have the finances or manpower to police the 500+ posts that get submitted daily to @buildawhale.
I have a firm no plagiarism or stolen content stance, but it is a full-time job for 3 people to deal with the volume. As it is, everything I make with @buildawhale gets put back in to pay for steem power.
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@themarkymark Why not run off of a whitelist? Every bot owner contribute some time or sbd to see its operation. That Steem Power that buildawhale grows is your nest egg and payment. If we do what's right and promote a clean healthy Steemit, then the price of Steem will go up(to $3,$4 or maybe even $10). That is your compensation for the time and work investment now.
If however, you have NO longterm faith in Steem or Steemit, we can all ignore the spam and just grab all the cash we can atm and try and be the first to bail when the ship gets overrun by rats and starts going down.
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A whitelist would be a huge undertaking and would require endless maintenance and would require just as much work policing content as if I actively read all 400-600+ posts a day we receive.
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I do agree that there needs to be quality moderation for upvote bots, but it only works if ALL of them offer it, or if no one delegates to the ones that don't have some kind of moderation scheme in place.
One way to deal with shotpost upvoters is require registration and account "approval" process to prevent shitposter accounts from using the votebot. But again, that only works if ALL the teams running bots started doing that.
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That doesn't work either, all you have to do is submit one good post and be approved, then you are free to shit post. The post doesn't even have to be authentic, just pass the approval process. The solution is to police every link.
I'm already losing money paying everything I make back to pay rent, there is no way I can manage that nightmare of a problem.
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That's a flawed moderation system. How about: only accounts that are over a month old, have rep above 25 (haven't fucked anything up in a month) and have an introduction / verification post. Hell, steem.global asks for a selfie in a comment thread to prevent abuse of the faucet. Asking for users to register and have some kind of proof of consistency in quality isn't much to ask for.
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Then why are you still doing the bidbot? Sounds like time to cut losses and move on to a better business model.
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It offers a valuable service to new users who are struggling. We also offer a lot more than just a bid bot.
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Which is why 25-50% of all whale Steem Power would need to be delegated to small curators (on 30, 90 or 120 day periods) in order to spread out the work of curating quality content.
If all the large sp holders prefer immediate profit than platform performance, then a whitelist is the only other ethical solution I can think of.
If you are okay with spam winning the day, then, by all means just keep doing everything as is now and await a HF magical unicorn to save the day.
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I'm not sure about problem being solved. I get multiple people DMing me offering upvotes for money now. If we chose to "flag everything upvoted by a bot" we would just have them go underground, where they still sell votes off the blockchain where we don't see it and with accounts not everyone knows are bots. (Or at least for some time until we realise that's what they are)
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No it's not "flag everything upvoted by a bot" that i'm recommending, it's "flag bad content that gets large rewards" regardless of the origin of those rewards.
The complaints against the bots are basically due to "bad" or "low value" posts getting high rewards and showing on trending lists. So if there is a concerted effort to downvote those posts then the authors will stop paying to promote them since they will be losing money.
That way it doesn't matter if the votes are bought on or off chain or whatever - if there's poor content with high rewards it should be downvoted until it doesn't have high rewards anymore.
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I know you didn't say that, I'm just saying even if everything was flagged, it still wouldn't stop them running the bots and they still won't put up a disclaimer telling their customers "this is not a free market, you may get flagged for subjective reasons". Funny thing about the bid bots, is the less people using them the more profit there if for those who do use them. I think what we need is a hard-fork.
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What would you propose for the hard fork?
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That does require altruistic whales. I do however agree.
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Since rewards are stake-weighted pretty much anything will require whales. For better or worse a very small number of accounts have almost complete control of the rewards fund.
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This post has received a 16.44 % upvote from @buildawhale thanks to: @aggroed. Send at least 1 SBD to @buildawhale with a post link in the memo field for a portion of the next vote.
To support our daily curation initiative, please vote on my owner, @themarkymark, as a Steem Witness
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wow this post nicely done to you...so like it..@aggroed
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Hiii sir your post is nice I am new here and just put my introduction post please have a look @aggroed
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Congratulations @aggroed, this post is the second most rewarded post (based on pending payouts) in the last 12 hours written by a Superhero or Legend account holder (accounts hold greater than 100 Mega Vests). The total number of posts by Superhero and Legend account holders during this period was 27 and the total pending payments to posts in these categories was $969.96. To see the full list of highest paid posts across all accounts categories, click here.
If you do not wish to receive these messages in future, please reply stop to this comment.
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Maybe there should be a system to discourage shitposters instead of blaming the content creators for not using bots?
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Haha this is the same philosophy that the Koch brothers get so much grief for when they say how corrupt government handouts are but then accept them on a daily basis. They ask why would we put ourselves at a business disadvantage just because we don't agree with something. You can take advantage of bots and still disagree with them.
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I was a very much against the changing of 10 votes from 40. I think that adjusting this could be drastic for the issues we are having. It wouldn't hurt bots or minnowsupport IMO but would stop the over valued post values. Who knows, maybe people would start reading content again and upvote minnows. Anyways, I hope you are well @aggroed and I hope you had a great holiday.
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Very valid points @aggroed and I never looked at it that way. I did use bots before but not often and thought (like you mention) that I just want to be rewarded based on the work I've done and not 'buy' my votes. But this makes perfect sense. Thanks for sharing.
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#bernieblackfriday circle jerk is amazing! I been jerked off more than 25 times and the day isn’t even over!! Now I’m gonna use the shitty bid bot!
I just jerked you with my feet because my hands are raw from all this action.
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This post has received a 50.00 % upvote from @msp-bidbot thanks to: @minnowsupport. Thank you for using msp-bidbot. Be sure to vote for witnesses at https://steemit.com/~witnesses.
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nice post.
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how do i use a bidbot
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Thanks for the advice, it is actually very true in a very ironic way :p
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Congratulations @aggroed!
Your post was mentioned in the hit parade in the following category:
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there is another way.
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Another way to?
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another way to cultivate Planet Steem besides vote buying. As you are aware since the beginning, the status quo is constantly changing. What is now happening will not be happening forever. Think Steem Guild.......you know what happened to them.
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sure. totally agree, but this is the landscape right now. So, as long as it is might as well use it as designed warts and all. Might also need to appreciate how it's maybe not all warts.
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This post has received gratitude of 1.46 % from @appreciator thanks to: @aggroed.
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Hi @aggroed, i share very similar view. I am against bidbots, but I am really trying to understand them from within. I believe that this is a long-lived discussion. I myself have few articles written about that, and in the latest one, I am reporting on my experience trying to use bidbot. Reporte on numbers, gain/loss, efficiency. Still. I am against them. But better to know the system from inside (if you really want it to vanish away) https://steemit.com/mindset/@borges.barilla/are-you-struggling-to-understand-bidbots-and-how-to-use-them . I am curious about how the @minnowsupport works. Can you say more about that?
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do you know how many upvotes i need----- more and more.good post
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Your comment was downvoted by @miti on its content.. but don't worry because at this time I used only a small portion of my Steem Power percentage as a warning.
To write comment for asking vote for vote OR follow for follow is considered spam in Steemit community. I also suggest you to read Steemit etiquette carefully before you hurt your reputation.
If you keep tryin' and don't stop writing that kind of comments, I am forced to increase my Steem Power percentage to downvote your spam comments, hurting your reputation too.
I'm not a BOT and my aim is to clear posts by trolls and spammers.
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Don't mind him. Good work
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The comment is too big. You should make a smaller comment template.
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