Discussion - What are reasons investors avoid STEEM?

denmarkguy (76) · 6 years ago

Hi @timcliff... allow me, for a moment, to take the 50,000 foot overview of investing, as I have experienced it.

In conventional investing, there is always a tradeoff. High "current income" almost always comes with a considerable downside risk to the price of the asset you're holding. High current income typically comes from high risk "junk" bonds and sketchy Real Estate Investment Trusts (REITs). Sometimes current income can also come from EFTs specializing in currency arbitrage.

MOST investments are a long term (2, 5, 10+ years) proposition hinging on appreciation in the value of the asset, because the underlying project does something really excellent. For example, I had the good fortune to be able to buy 1000 shares of Dell computer when they were "nothing," and I paid (adjusted backwards for splits) about $0.94 a share, and sold them for $40-something, several YEARS later. I made 50x(!) my money back. In that 3.5 year period I never received a single cent of current income!

What does this have to do with Steem?

A LOT, I'm afraid. When people keep pitching Steem as a "current income" investment, you're pitching an idea that REMOVES money from the table. As long as money keeps flowing OUT to income seekers, there's a constant drain on the system. In essence, it's like a bathtub you fill at the top, but because the drain at the bottom is partially open, the "pressure" needed to create an excess of demand over supply (the mechanism that drives price increases) never gets to really build.

I know it may sound like a dandy idea to pump $1mn into a bidbot that generates daily revenue... but consider the very distinct possibility that the delightful $500 a day you get to pull out PALES in comparison to fact that your million dollar investment has declined in value to $600K by the end of the year.

So step 1: Focus more on pitching Steem as a great "buy and hold" investment. If you want "hands on," do something along the lines of what came out in your recent interview with @steemed... delegate it to content and community based initiatives, thereby putting your investment to work at increasing the base value of what you put IN.

Step 2: Look at what KIND of investor we're trying to reach. There seems to be a heavy focus on "big fish," but what about the approach of having several thousand people putting in $5K each? This is a high risk gig. Spitting up $1m for this is a little bit like high stakes gambling. Asking 10,000 people for $5K each? Now we're looking at amounts a lot more people can "afford to play with." It also means any one single player has far less influence... both in terms of selling their stake AND community influence. In turn, a large number of investors gives you FAR more "bang for your word-of-mouth buck."

IF I had money of my own to put in (sadly, I don't — I pretty much live "shutoff notice to shutoff notice") I'd most likely delegate it in manageable chunks to an assortment of proven manual curators, with smaller delegations to promising newcomers... the latter as a sort "retention device."

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leprechaun (56) · 6 years ago

Leaving issuance out of the picture. Let's look at what makes a currency look like Paypal or Bitcoin.

A Crypto-Currency Dressed in Paypal's Clothing

Bitcoin's main properties: A large amount of wallets, a relatively large amount of services and beggars accepting it, supply has a mathematical limit of 21 million. Now this applies mostly to BTC but BCH is also quickly getting acceptance because those who are early early adopters of Bitcoin didn't buy in to sell for a higher price. They bought in because they wanted to create an alternative to banking transfers and accounts. The early adopters and probably the big holders of BTC and BCH also have the same ethos because really the history of BCH starts the same time as BTC.

Let's look at how a user who doesn't have a really high end machine uses Steemit. Hmm... very few wallets. Only one GUI which is a web wallet. There is very small adoption even for a cryptocurrency.

Now compare say Paypal, with how a user uses bitcoin on blockchain.info. It's the same. You login to a website you spend money there. If something happens to that one website you are hosed. This is a misuse of bitcoin. Using bitcoin but not in a peer to peer way.

Now, how do most people use Steem/SBD? Compare that to how someone who uses say electrum or many other multi-coin wallets use Bitcoin (BTC or BCH). Which of these experiences looks like a legitimate crypto-currency and which one looks like a Paypal clone?

Early Coin Advantage

Before Steem will get attention based on transaction capacity, people will have to exhaust the Litecoin and BCH chain's capacity. That's going to take a long time if it ever happens. These two are doing great in terms of health and they also command a high market cap, which implies that is where the monetary "worth" is.

Transactions as Opaque as Glass

Although Bitcoin transactions are public there is a pseudo-anonymity to it with it's ugly bitcoin addresses. Which gives people the wrong impression. Steem makes it easier for people to see what transactions are making rather than making it possible.

Perhaps Steem will shine for charities who wish to inspire confidence with even more radical transparency than what bitcoin provides.

Application developers should look at what makes Steem different from the other cryptos before deciding whether it is the best option for an application.

$0.97

awesomianist (64) · 6 years ago

Why steem isnt doing well in terms of perception.

Most description of Steem in the wider internet never did steem justice. Investopedia still calls Steem "a cryptocurrency ... used to power the Steemit platform"
Outside of steem Dapps. There are no other communities in the internet. Reddit r/steem is nearly lifeless other than a few steemians and post promoters.
There is no concerted marketing to advertise steem, At all. I get that steemit.inc made themselves clear that they wont do any martketing but please.. at least a "steem foundation" or something?? there's no doubt many decentralized initiative that tries to market steem but everyone seems to be going in all directions that the community as whole ends up going no where.

I haven't met anyone with the money to be potential investors, I also don't think I'm the best person to pitch steem to investors. But If i must try i would say something along the lines of;

Tapping into a talent community and utilise their creative talent without potential needing to pay them in dollars.
ROI positive content marketing when done right, literally.
ability to "invest" in creative talents via curation and actually make money on top of steem speculation.
Be an early adopter/investor in the Tokenized Content Web. The future of the internet.
Opportunity to see Ethreum level type growth of value when SMT comes online.

I get that investors are all looking to make as much passive income doing as little as possible.But My beef is that the current rent-seeking businesses built atop of steem is hurting the whole ecosystem as a whole.While investors still make money vote trailing curators and let them find great content on steem, why do that when pumping money into a bidbot makes more APR?

It's a hard discussion. People will hate my opinion and defend vote-commoditizing / rent-seeking to the death, Im just a minnow. I dont matter.

$0.81

intelliguy (68) · 6 years ago (edited)

If you had 60 seconds to talk to a potential investor and tell them five things that they may not know about STEEM, what would you say?

Much like the users of steem, you have no idea about what is soon coming to steem in the way of functionality, programming, hard forks, and plans worked on for the last year that about to debut.
Steem has gone through huge speculation. The steem speculation is secondary to its true value long term. What it is valued today, tomorrow, or next week, has absolutely no meaning to what it will be worth 5 years from now.
Early investors (which means today)... who see the possibility of exponential growth of a system, will earn exponential profits later. If you want exponential growths, you have to invest early.
Brands that have ignored steem, that are the first to try steem, are going to be the most adopted and trusted. If you know someone that has a brand that wants to get easy adoption and be "first on the scene".. let them know. This social platform is ready for some organization to take notice and be the first to exploit the opportunity.
Steem has proven its existence beyond the first year of operation. It has proven its existence beyond the second year of operation. It's entering its third year of operation and all signs point to a continued operation. Most business fail within their first 1-2 years of operations. If steem was to fail, it would have already. Take a second look and really analyze the potential for growth... most aren't doing that... get in on something explosive now.

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kingbrianboru (61) · 6 years ago

Point 5 is based on the idea of the Lindy effect ;)

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geekpowered (69) · 6 years ago

I recently bought $250 of Steem. Might not seem like a lot to some people but it's a big deal to me. I also regularly trade Steem back and forth on the market to make more. Currently, I use Binance.

I have no idea why investors don't seem to be that interested in Steem. Maybe it's because when they research it, they come across this social network that seems like a get rich quick scheme with tons of people making a ton of money on shit posts. It certainly feels like the crap in trending is keeping the price down. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually is.

As to the 5 things I would say to an investor, I have no clue. I know that to me it seems completely undervalued as a crypto currency that allows users to send crypto to one another with no fees and as a social network. Even with the abuse here, there is a community and a potential that is extremely undervalued.

$0.64

leprechaun (56) · 6 years ago

why do people buy bitcoin? You can transfer money over a the Internet and there is no head office like in Paypal to stop you. Adoption is key. I am seeing better adoption of bcash than Steem dollars or Steem. Randomly people ask for donations in btc principally and to a lesser extent bcash, litecoin and dash. That is the reality of it.

What would people pay SBD for? It seems people who use Steem dont want to spend money on ebooks. There are some fine ones on Steemfiles.com. why is nobody buying?

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geekpowered (69) · 6 years ago

I haven't even seen anyone advertising a book on steemfiles. Customers are supposed to magically show up? As you said, adoption is key. People need to start seeing more and more books on steemfiles and start checking themselves. Right now, it's early adoption.

goose20 (50) · 6 years ago

Hi there,

Myself, I've been in crypto many years (mined BTC on graphics card) but only recently discovered, by accident, that I had a Steemit account. I googled something, clicked on an article, it brought me to Steemit, and then I noticed I was 'logged in' while on here. Before that, Steem was never on my radar.

So in my month on here what are my thoughts:

I've considered buying/adding steempower, but have decided against it (for the moment). I've only seen the price go down. The ponzi aspect quickly came to mind. The circle-jerk aspect sucks. The social platform aspect is missing the 'social' aspect for the most part, most are here for making money and because it becomes all too easy to work out how the platform is 'gamed' (or how the game is played) you quickly realise your posts will be ignored unless your reputation is 60s or 70s.

So what's the point to hang around? Over time Steem will become more and more centralised in only a few hands.

That's not a community; so most walk away.

Investors aren't idiots, with only hope of riches to come, so they shy away.

I also think Steem may have an identity problem at the moment. How should an investor view Steem:
(A) is it the blockchain that supports a social platform - where writers, photographers, ordinary folk etc can come and socialise, blog, vlog, make friends, have fun. Is is the new alternative to FB, Twitter, reddit etc; or
(B) is it a high tech protocol, that other apps can build on top of. Is it the better alternative to ETH, EOS, Bitshares etc; or
(C) is it trying to be everything.

For those who (1) are in the know and (2) have somehow broken through the initial hard slog -> I'm sure they believe in the platform and how it will ultimately end up successful. For those looking in now - it is not what its cracked up to be.

Thanks for reading (if anyone does)
😕

$0.64

7 votes

beeyou (59) · 6 years ago

You are quite perceptive in your short time here.

goose20 (50) · 6 years ago

Thanks.
It's really no different to issues other platforms have - each have similar aspects.

Steem/Steemit/Steemd/DLive/DTube/SMTs..and so on and on... it's too much. They all face similar problems is use-case: the rich get richer while the minnows struggle. Where is all the value of Steem coming from exactly...

Whales have to eat, and if there's no minnows/plankton around... then they die. Seems the initial feast is over and the rate of starvation is starting to accelerate. Some see it and are trying so hard to plan ahead (this is a great post by @timcliff in this regard), while others are still basking in their fat 'success'.

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beeyou (59) · 6 years ago

Where is all the value of Steem coming from exactly...

I'm waiting on the highly reputable whales to lead the way and show us struggling minnows! ;)

It will be interesting to see if you stick around and decide to invest on here.

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goose20 (50) · 6 years ago

Yes... we groundfeeders are all waiting to see the 'light'. lol

Hopefully there will be a major shift as to how things work - I'm not too familiar with HF20, but it seems that there is acknowledgement change is needed by the powers that be, hence HF20 - fingers crossed :)

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gregjava (48) · 6 years ago

500% spot on, @goose20!

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leprechaun (56) · 6 years ago

It is option A. It is not at all like Eth. Bitshares has many assets. Steem only really has a couple hard coded ones.

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goose20 (50) · 6 years ago

I think most are of that belief too. I personally hope it can grow more 'social' - it can really be something if it works out.

Thanks for stopping by, commenting, and socialising :)

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gric (69) · 6 years ago (edited)

I believe that most investors are scared away by the high amount of really bad bitbot-promoted content which we get to see especially in the Trending section today. It's like watching a movie where 95% is advertising. Unfortunately most of the big Steemit accounts and witnesses embrace and exploit the bid-bot system for their profit without realizing that it's killing the spirit of the platform. Replacing genuine human interaction with automated voting-systems is the poison for any creativity.

$0.48

5 votes

timcliff (73) · 6 years ago (edited)

It is an interesting view, and definitely a valid concern. I suspect there probably are some investors who have looked at steemit.com as an example of how the platform is supposed to work, and been discouraged / disheartened by what they saw.

I will play devil's advocate though and pose the question - how many potential investors do you think this really mattered to? Do you think that a majority of traders who are buying/selling on Bittrex and the other platforms are actually going and checking out the products behind the coins they buy? I would guess that the number is a lot lower than people would expect.

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ross-early (51) · 6 years ago

Do you think that a majority of traders who are buying/selling on Bittrex and the other platforms are actually going and checking out the products behind the coins they buy?

This sentence made a little light bulb come on so I hope it makes sense when I explain it @timcliff. I agree with the statement above because most investors (average Joe's) in the crypto world don't have the tech background to begin to understand the purpose of the projects behind a coin. Why would they be motivated to do research on something they assume they can't grasp?

Now what kind of project would those same average Joe's understand very well because it has dominated their lives the past decade or more? A social media product. While it may be difficult for the average Joe to understand if Golem or some other project is working as designed it is very clear to most investors that Steemit a "social media platform alternative" is not hitting its mark. That mark is very recognizable to investors because they have lived in that space for years interacting with successful social platforms such as Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

Investors take a look and don't like what they see because they know from experience what success looks like for a social platform. Well I hope that came across clear enough.

$1.15

gric (69) · 6 years ago

I wouldn't call people who just trade Steem on exchanges investors but rather traders. All they want to see is the chart of Steem; when the price is low they buy in for a few hundreds or thousands, when it spikes they sell. These people usually don't look at the technology behind the coin. However, if somebody really wants to invest big money into this then they will probably want to know more about it and they'll do their research. Why to buy big into a magazine which only shows ads? Is there even a point in placing ads in such a magazine?

Steemit today only works as a social media platform in small hidden niches. You only get good content in your feed if you hand-pick the accounts you follow. And it's getting less because the revenues are in decline due to SP delegations to bid-bots, thus many people are discouraged to continue using it regularly.

$0.75

smooth (70) · 6 years ago

In a large number of cases Steem's 'product', imperfect though it may be, would be miles ahead of those other tokens being traded simply because it actually exists, works, and is being used.

Then again I've heard the argument that actually having a product in this market is bad, because then you can be tested in terms of real metrics like daily active users, growth rate, etc. as well as taking a hard look at things like how those things actually drive token value (or don't). If there isn't any working product it is all based on a good story and dreams of reaching the stars, without any hard numbers or hard reality to hold it back.

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

I can see the point about the metrics. When you are traded on speculation alone, well imaginations run wild.

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sapphic (52) · 6 years ago

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leprechaun (56) · 6 years ago

Yeah, how else did sbd reach 10$ each? O:-)

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timcliff (73) · 6 years ago

I’m not seeing the connection

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wordymouth (61) · 6 years ago

I'm new to Steemit, so I may be too much of a newbie. However, some observations. The reason people think Pyramid Scheme is because in those MLM systems, the first investors (re: whales) seem to have made all the money and anyone below is just stuck at the bottom. So, a way to reward good content is needed. I write fiction on Steemit and rarely does anyone read it. Which takes me to point two: bid bots. Those are the only way to reward content and it comes at the mercy of the person funding the promotion. So I can invest $5 STEEM with the expectation of earning $7 STEEM. I have to put in the money. This seems a bit like buying into a pyramid. What is needed is a way to show how STEEM can be used for Smart Contracts and other things. Now, I love Steem because it is one of the few coins that actually can show Proof of Work and people are posting things on it and using it. Cynically, I can use more bid bots to earn more STEEM, but I really want readers. We need to find a way to improve discovery and readership. Otherwise, it will continue to be viewed as a way to make money from the pyramid.

theguruasia (67) · 6 years ago

@timcliff,
Sorry I won't take 60 secs to explain why invest on STEEM! I could tell it in few words! "SMT is coming", I think more will come and yeah I also invested my RL money in STEEM, yeah at the moment I am not in profit by that investment! But I am focusing long term!
With SMT, more will in and we can be at top 10 CMC!

Cheers~

$0.34

enjar (69) · 6 years ago

Beta

How much longer are we going be in beta? How many of those 31 ahead of us are still considered in “beta?”

As a gamer, I know a lot of people won’t go near a product that is in alpha or beta. They want a “finished” project cut and dry release date. They don’t’ care if there updates later on or expansion packs. From a physiological standpoint, they won’t go near a beta.

Same goes for the business world. People want a working product that does not have endless connecting issues every week like a beta product. Those kinds of projects carry “extra” risk that most investors want to stay away from unless the ROI is so insane they are drooling at the mouth. Cryptocurrency already has that high risk at its very core which is playing out right now.

Issues

Could you imagine a $1 million investor not being able to connect to the website and having endless loading issues and other issues a few times a week? Almost never a word on twitter or anyone else that they would think to look about website outage or issues.

I doubt they would be impressed if they visit the front page and see someone bidbot up a picture of corn with a payout of hundreds of dollars in the very asset they are looking into invest into. They won’t even understand that person spent more than they will get back out.

New type of investor

I think we don’t need so-called investors at least the kind most seem to be trying to attracted right now. We need more so-called consumers of content with some money to blow. Investor invests once and waits for the ROI. Someone here looking for a good time will keep buying it if that is what it takes to keep supporting content they want to keep seeing.

If a company could run off the blockchain and pay there customers while accepting payment in steem. That sounds like the kind of people you want investing in a place like this. How many even know that's an option out there in the world?

Moving back to proof-of-brain

Does Steemit need its own version of Patreon and are there people out there that will build it? Where people are down powering SP every week or month into the content creators they support accounts. Who then in return decide from there what they need to power down to keep creating the content they want to and being investors by holding.

We have a massive pool of people already trying sell votes or delegations. At what point is there no longer proof-of-brain. That has seemed to have gotten lost on the highway and ran over by a dump truck. That would be a funny meme to see on trending at least.

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leprechaun (56) · 6 years ago (edited)

Yes. It has become an overly complex proof of stake system. There is some proof of brain still though. There is some proof of brain still though.

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enjar (69) · 6 years ago

Less and less every day it appears.

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meno (73) · 6 years ago (edited)

I actually did this, just a few days ago. My main focus was not so much on the valuation, but the possibilities of a blockchain that works better than 99% of blockchains in the world.

As much as I want to be able to tell someone, listen drop 100k in here, I can double your money, I will never do that, I did not do that in this conversation I just had, and I would encourage anyone who is even considering sitting down with an investor to avoid "scammy" sounding returns.

My main focus was the community, the at this point, thousands of people who are actively participating of this blockchain attempting to build their version of "internet 2.0" with blocks.

My main focus was, imagine being able to be an early investor for facebook, when they still had many kinks not worked out and honestly the possibilities were endless.

I also did something either brave or stupid. I said it with conviction because I freaking mean every word. "I would take a loan against my house to be able to have this opportunity" because as much as I could be wrong, I don't want to regret not seizing it in the future.

I won't say more... at least for now.. But honestly. I feel like what we need to get some actual investors in here is people who know how to transmit passion. I mean, I know we have them, I see them every day... And those have to be the ones out there.

Now, I won't lie... it was supposed to be a 10-15 minute convo. But it turned into 3 hours, a few drinks and a hug.

Let's see what happens...

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robertandrew (67) · 6 years ago (edited)

I also did something either brave or stupid. I said it with conviction because I freaking mean every word. "I would take a loan against my house to be able to have this opportunity" because as much as I could be wrong, I don't want to regret not seizing it in the future.

I think some if not many will disagree with me but I agree and get what you're saying. I think sometimes in Life you have to pull that proverbial Trigger and just say f- it...and see that you might not ever have an opportunity like this again.

Just as long as you have a back up plan

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tarazkp (80) · 6 years ago

I think it is because investors don't necessarily care about the end users that is part of the problem perhaps. It is much easier to speculate on something that doesn't appear to have as much 'baggage' tied to it. As a coin/blockchain, it outperforms most but because of the community aspect, a lot of the dirty laundry is public. The other projects can hide a lot of the dirt and therefore, hype a lot of the nonsense.

At the end of the day though, I think that mature investors will see the benefit and potential of having a community attached over vaporware that is most other projects. Immature investors which make up most of the market most likely are looking for fast profits, not long term growth prospects. As the projects with use case start to get traction, investors will move from the shitcoin pumps to those that have an increased utility, less risk and more stability. Plus with Steem, many ways to earn without having to sell the investment.

I also think that for the most part, people who might be talking to potential investors aren't necessarily the most capable to do so.

$0.32

9 votes

abh12345 (76) · 6 years ago

As a coin/blockchain, it outperforms most but because of the community aspect, a lot of the dirty laundry is public.

This would be my point too, even though I feel the prices of coins follow the big player.

If an investor were to google STEEM, they would find this place, and from page one, what do you see?

FUD from our own members, someone's breakfast, maybe some golden healing powder if you are very unlucky.

Saying that, I'm super bullish - maybe the trick at present is to scare people away and hit them with the 'you should have bought in before SMT dude!'

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

'you should have bought in before SMT dude!'

Spread that FOMO...

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spiritualmatters (55) · 6 years ago

a lot of the dirty laundry is public

Yes, this is a huge factor, which is amplified by the fact that blogging doesn't offer a tangible ROI in and of itself. Perhaps, SMTs may give new STEEM to a stagnant economy.

Steemit will always be a pioneer. I think the 'pay to post' system is here to stay. That said, the riff-raff scam and bot infestation is a huge turnoff to anyone with serious wealth putting serious money in the pot.

Anyone who tracks the market, even a novice such as I, can see that we're currently playing with a helium balloon manipulated by a handful of people. Unlike, for example, Apple, there is no tangible asset associated with the Steem economy which can't be easily replicated.

Best regards.

Peace.

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awesomianist (64) · 6 years ago

I agree take we have to take vaporware hype into account. Investors have limited attention, if they see flashy "Future AI Big Data Blockchain 10.0 will 10000x " peddled by cute ladies, they invest. Steem on the other hand gets shadowed because we already have a product and no snake-oil miniskirt clad salesladies.

I guess it's just a matter of coming up with a unified marketing strategy. Perhaps an independant "Steem Foundation" run by steemians of all interests to drive marketing to a meaningful level. mirroring what is done with the bitcoin, ethereum, dash foundations maybe....

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namiks (64) · 6 years ago (edited)

I guess one of them is that a running witness that doesn't agree with you and has more voting weight can downvote and hide all your posts/ruin your reputation out of spite. d:^)

Jokes aside, I think there's multiple reasons:

I believe overall, Steem/Steemit doesn't have enough marketing to make itself really known. While most other coins quickly gather awareness over various forms of social media and general word of mouth (or word of... text?)

As an investment standpoint, I don't think many people that came into crypto over the past year are looking for long-term investments, but more short-term holds and maximum gains. After all, that's what they were introduced to, it's what they expect.

The other thing is certainly money. Steem is already at a decent price (I've bought 1000+ recently), but it doesn't really feel like a deal. If you look at many of the smaller coins that really blew up during the bull market, they had incredibly low prices. Many of the cheaper ones blew up for one reason: they were low-satoshi, high-circulation coins. Steem is already somewhat established.

People tend to come to Steemit to make money, so the premise of investing into Steem probably doesn't make much sense if you're a struggling content creator. Chances are you don't even have the capital to do so, and this is coming from someone that was a struggling freelance writer for several years.

I'll add a few more reasons to this comment if I think of more.

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5 votes

inertia (73) · 6 years ago

Along the lines of the old inflation rate, I explored the notion that investors think if you invest in STEEM, they just give all the money to bloggers: If you buy STEEM

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dynamicrypto (71) · 6 years ago

Just sat down with 2 friends today that are losing money in crypto and I talked them into rethinking just losing it and hedging their investments and to look into steem and SBD. My selling point for SBD is the halt of printing until after HF20 September 25th, if it happens on time then they print again. Last year this happened during crypto going up and SBD went up over 1,000%. Before the end of September I would then power those SBD's up into SP as Steem should go up again with SBD's printing and less Steem being paid for rewards.

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8 votes

erh.germany (64) · 6 years ago

Problem of understanding

Who actually runs steemit and who is responsible for the blockchains functionality? I think the witness business is hard to understand for non techs.

I guess huge investors still like to talk face to face to the entrepreneurs and like to make business through contracts and shake hands. Those are not the speculators.

Age

This tech scene is - it seems - predominantly dominated by young people and the more conservative age groups from 40+ - who already have money in their regular accounts and could afford it - are doing something different than speculating on this market. They will probably enter when the ups and downs are no longer so unstable, the price fluctuations are no longer so large and the whole thing can be regarded as a long-term investment - the Steem has become more established as a crypto currency to be taken seriously.

competitors

At the moment it still seems completely unclear whether Steemit will survive or whether there will be other competitors on the market that appear more attractive or trigger the next hype.

legislation & anonymity & tax

Another reason is the uncertainty as to whether the legislator will not regulate the market in a disruptive manner. I think that the issue of anonymity is an inhibiting effect here and the insecurity about legislative measures may perhaps have a deterrent effect on such mentalities. The cool heads, who don't care so much about the image of the platform and who don't care whether Steemit looks clean, are certainly already here. But people who want to do legal business and don't want any problems with the officials may just wait. The European Parliament, which has now addressed this issue, examined a total of 10 crypto currencies in a study. Steem was not mentioned there.

The legislator wants to influence the fact that anonymity is to be undermined in the settlement of currency transactions and that the operators give in. How many financially strong users will then jump out -because of losing anonymity - is unclear.

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robertandrew (67) · 6 years ago (edited)

Have any of you actually talked to potential investors about putting money into Steem and gotten feedback on what their thoughts are?

To only a small extent mainly because Steem has not proven itself completely to myself....but it is definitely getting there ;)

Have you considered investing some of your own money into STEEM? (If 'no', then why not?)

Yep, just Under $10K. Btw, just invested in another 1,100 Steem today and Powered Up because I believe in it as well as this whole platform ;0 )

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sames (65) · 6 years ago

I got some negative reasons why:

No cold wallets
Investors like storing their crypto in Ledger and Tezor.
However storing steem is harder their. Investors even if they know can get a return aka investing in bots they just want to store in cold wallets. In order to create a cold wallet steem account, a fee needs to be paid to create the account and as such cold wallets aren't to keen to adding it.
No Multi sig
Multisig helps big investors not forgot and get hacked less while letting them store in a semi-hot wallet.
Coinbase custoday might fix that but it not as good as multisig

IDK anymore. Well comment if I can think of anymore

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timcliff (73) · 6 years ago

Good answers. We do have multi-sig though btw :)

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sames (65) · 6 years ago

we do? I asked/googled before but could not find any info on it.

https://steemit.com/piston/@xeroc/piston-how-to-use-it-for-multisignature-accounts

timcliff (73) · 6 years ago

I'm not sure how current it is, but here is an old article on it. I know multi-sig is still supported, even if the piston library referenced in the post is not. (Hopefully it should at least be a starting point.)

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sames (65) · 6 years ago

Interesting...
This would help create more trusts in big time investors. Now maybe with the new HF, the ledger issue can be fixed. Instead of paying in steem, the wallets pay in Resources credits. Might cost alot of steempower thought so maybe steemit inc can use their stake and help create accounts for the wallet companies? Almost every top 50 crypto is on ledger/tezor. So I think after the hardfork, steemit inc needs to get in contact with one of them. This was more investors would feel safe buying their steem. Plus the cooler part is that they gain steem as well just by hodling securely :P

$0.26

mysearchisover (70) · 6 years ago

I think it will become the next Facebook but there are major bumps in the road. I think we need more users and less bots. It seems like bots are getting 90% of the Steem power.

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stevelivingston (64) · 6 years ago

@meno wrote a similar piece v recently which might be useful in your research Inc comments:
https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@meno/if-you-had-an-opportunity-to-talk-to-an-investor-about-steem-would-you

Posted using Partiko Android

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7 votes

timcliff (73) · 6 years ago

Thanks!

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gregjava (48) · 6 years ago

The problem now is that market competition is stiffer and fiercer than it ever used to be. People now talk about bitshares and eos seems to be trending too. So, investors will invest according to preferences and unfortunately, everybody cannot think alike or have the same preferences.

Good-a-thing, Steemit has the technology to compete and provides conducive atmosphere to do so. With time, the difference might become clearer and more investment will come in.

The platform just needs to stick to the path of constructive improvement at all times and time will tell.

my humble thoughts

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abasinkanga (61) · 6 years ago

Truth be told... Steemit is the best use case of the steem blockchain. Investors want to know how their money will work for them... So if they are investing in steem, its most likely going to work for them on the steemit platform - but that is where it gets all complex and hard to explain - and that is why investors ultimately shy away from steemit (i am talking about those investors who dont take the time to understand the mechanics of steemit, these are the ones who shy away), but if they take the time to understand the platform and its underlying mechanics, they will see it as a beautiful investment vehicule... however that is where the BIG PROBLEM lies, passing across the steemit vision, mission, operations, in a clear and attractive way to potential investors...

Many people want things to work in simple language ABC style... they tend to cringe when they discover there's still LMN to deal with as well...

As for steemit its so beautifully complex it goes all the way to XYZ...

Wall street investors see this as a no-no for them, but crypto lovers, passionate writers, and the like nerds just love steemit for what it is... A self sustainable economy that will rule the world some day... (just my thoughts)

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adarshh (54) · 6 years ago

investors will come when there is a vibrant community. a blockchain's strength is the people in it. when i talk to some of my friends about steemit, i am always faced with the question of Steemit's business fundamentals. They dont see any.

Naturally this is to be expected because everyone is trying to figure out what works and things that fail. But Steemit's growth path has been confused as many others have pointed out in other comments. there does not seem to be clarity of purpose.

The way to pull in other communities is to be a successful community yourself. this is a question that investors have when i share Steemit with them.

My spiel would be that Steemit can become the world's first crowdsourced premier curation service. It has the ability and the infrastructure to scale to millions of knowledgeable curators who can finally make quality content a paid model via consumer subscriptions. It can enable millions of smaller publishing houses and disrupt the content publishing industry.

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rodneysreviews (52) · 6 years ago

The main reason investors steer clear is Steem's inflation. They assume their money will dwindle to nothing. That's even the ones who know it's approximately 9 percent per annum.

"five things that they may not know about STEEM, what would you say?"

The 5 things I would tell them:-

(1) Social media is evergreen, as human beings will always need human contact, even in the impending age of automation. This is not something you can say about almost every other field;

(2) Decentralized social media bypasses the fickle and random censorship controls of the corporations, a censorship the public is becoming increasingly aware of;

(3) Tokenization of social media is the most efficient way for brands to directly interact and engage with the public, bypassing middlemen;

(4) Tokenization of social media solves the problem of adblockers, which are increasingly making it impossible for brands to reach potential customers. Under a system of tokenization, potential customers willingly seek out brands to earn tokens, neutralizing adblocking;

(5) Tokenization of social media incentivizes content creators to directly interact with their fans;

Conclusion: Decentralized tokenized social media is going to be a fixture of the future, and Steem is the market leader, having engaged a community of 65,000 active users even in it's beta phase. With the coming of new dapps and SMTs and more honed growth incentives, the potential to moon dwarfs the piddling 9 percent inflation (which is the cost of onboarding users for free and running and incentivizing the blockchain), but has the promise of 100x to 1000x returns once incentives are properly alligned. :)

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tsnaks (63) · 6 years ago

I have tought of putting money into STEEM, but the only reason I have not deposited any of my money on the site yet is . . .

I am underaged

I would have invested about 100-200$ Min into STEEM.

But Being underaged in the crypto community sucks, I can't buy nor sell.

That is why I love steemit tho.

I can just earn my crypto.

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timcliff (73) · 6 years ago

Can your parents buy on your behalf?

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tsnaks (63) · 6 years ago

They don't really like the idea of crypto in general.

They said if you become an adult do whatever you want.

But until then I got no choice

timcliff (73) · 6 years ago

That’s too bad

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steevc (73) · 6 years ago

I don't know many people with the money to invest. Steem has better technology than many others. That needs to be publicised more. There's so much potential for new enterprises on this platform

belemo (72) · 6 years ago

I've spoken with potential investors and had some of them actually invest in the community(though small amount in dollars, it's actually a big deal in Nigeria.) Most people I talk to don't seem to grasp the nuances of the community, I try simplifying things by telling them how "likes/liking" could fetch them extra income on their investments and it sounds too good to be true to them.
The five things I'd say is that

Be open minded
understand that it's a market
Learn about blogging/improve on yours if you don't
It's not a scam
Keep learning.

joele (55) · 6 years ago

The front end design does not give the new users what is Steem all about, they probably read an article on Steem but they do not know what is Steem all about and its advantages.

itstime (60) · 6 years ago

There is no one official place i can go to show an investor all the quick facts (inflation/user engagement/ seo rankings) that can quickly deliver the central message. ...should be a dashboard on steem.io

theadmiral0 (53) · 6 years ago

Most of the details have been covered but I think that Steem requires a proven useful product in order to provide big investment. Services or games like Steem Monsters make use of the Blockchain for totally different aims than the average blog post.

Having something thats successful and proven to :

Generate traffic
Earn income

Will hopefully attract the attention of any speculating investor but it also requires good advertising and sales tactics to get them to buy in.

Main Points

Steem is undervalued because it provides a solution to many problems that other cryptocurrencies face.
Free quick transactions.
Actual use cases with many different applications ( Developer friendly & is the future of mass adoption)

sumatranate (64) · 6 years ago

I think that the word investor makes us think of rich people. I know that was not your intention, but there are some strong connotations with that word.

I almost replied, "I don't know any investors." But then I remembered my Steem investment journey. I put in a $100 shortly after joining the platform. Then I invested another $500 at about $2 in December 2017. I am thinking about putting more in the next week or so.

Any talk I might have would focus on transaction speed, scalability, and the ability to build on the Steem blockchain.

mattclarke (68) · 6 years ago

Pyramid/Ponzi concerns.
POS-FUD from the POW fanboys, (as if 2 or 3 mining pools is more decentralised than 21 witnesses)
Ninja mine.

Now we're past the 2 year mark, the Pyramid whispers should run out of steam.
DPOS is gaining traction thanks to EOS and Bitshares. Hoping Dweb brings in some more eyeballs.
Ninja mine is here to stay. No idea why it's such a bugbear. Why walk away from a good product out of spite? What do you prove by missing out?

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tarazkp (80) · 6 years ago

Burn the Ninja mine?

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timcliff (73) · 6 years ago

The stake that Steemit, Inc. acquired during the early stages is what they use to fund Steemit, Inc. and the development team that does most of the work for the blockchain.

tarazkp (80) · 6 years ago

I was always under the impression it was unused. Maybe I misunderstood and it isn't used on platform. Thanks :)

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dhouse (57) · 6 years ago

well, the rewards system is totally broken, that's one thing

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dhouse (57) · 6 years ago

Also the UI/UX is absolutely awful and there is seemingly no one involved in working on a better one in a serious way

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spiritualmatters (55) · 6 years ago (edited)

I know Steemit is only one part of the STEEM economy; however, it's a primary part. Any investor can quickly see via comments, the open Wallets, and tracking the charts, the amount of risk associated with putting money in, without a significant ROI.

As many have said, SMTs may be the much-needed stabilizer to gain the attention of serious investors.

Best regards.

Peace.

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stevescoins (68) · 6 years ago

it's because the whales have not gifted me 500,000 SP...
...each...

trust me, once the whales kick in and lard me up, the value of STEEM will shoot up to $123.88 per

However, if y'all don't take my word on that (why does no one trust me? ;> )

The commenters make some good points..I think the best guesses are these
1- people don't know about Steemit, or how it works
I did an off-the-cuff survey on the Conservative Libertarian Fiction Alliance on facebook, and it was rare for them to have heard of it
2- people who know of it bring up the Ponzi accusation
When I first started, and I was searching for outside perspectives on Steemit, "ponzi" was usually the first SE result I got
3- There may be some bad-mouthing of the platform from content producers that did not strike it rich...leading to...
4- The community voting aspect of the platform can be abused. New users can be outvoted into dust: investors want stability...if some whales can drive down the value of the platform by attacking other users/investors, that is defintely a negative thing to take note of.
I don't have a solution to that problem, btw. Part of the appeal of the platform for me is that SP is yours to use

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snrm (57) · 6 years ago

A lot of the value from Steem is qualitative in the community, and I think investors sometimes look past the benefit of the community around it and what is generated.

Posted using Partiko iOS

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justyy (82) · 6 years ago

I think STEEM itself (crypto, blockchain) is great. The problem is the steemit app built on the steem blockchain. There are many other great steem applications but the investor may be mislead by seeing that there are many shitty posts are rewarded.

9 votes

zeeshannaqvi72 (52) · 6 years ago

@timcliff I am new on Steem don't much at the moment might not be able to answer this that well. but one thing always make me think how is Steem making money? If people holding big money upvote and other people make money with that and there money stay same than how is blog making money there is not even advertisement.

For example person with upvote worth 100 SBD giving 1000SBD a day to people's in form of upvotes where is that money coming from and how is blog getting profile out of that.

Posted using Partiko Android

timcliff (73) · 6 years ago

It’s a good question. It is answered in the FAQ, but IDK how many potential investors are going to read that :)

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zeeshannaqvi72 (52) · 6 years ago

@timcliff thanks for opening the door of FAQs it makes all questions clear even I got lots of thing which I wasn't aware of at all. I love this platform can tell now it have a very Bright feature will be biggest social media site in near feature.

Posted using Partiko Android

preparedwombat (70) · 6 years ago

Other than perhaps Bitcoin, have investors as opposed to speculators put much money at all into cryptocurrencies?

That said, if I was going to use 60 seconds to try to convince an investor to buy Steem, I would use it all to talk about the potential of Smart Media Tokens as wealth generators.

joythewanderer (78) · 6 years ago

I think people are used to the coins without a single practical use. When it comes to Steem, monetisation of some blog content doesn’t seem to convince most of the people, especially seeing the current trending pages.

But again, with more and more user cases coming, Steem is much more than just a reddit like blogging platform. Hopefully future investors will see it.

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beeyou (59) · 6 years ago (edited)

Hi @timcliff. I started off on Steemit because my coworker introduced me to this platform. My intro post earned pennies, and the same for the next few posts. I didn't want to give up, so asked real life friends if they wanted to join forces in a 'team account' (this beeyou account). I pitched the idea to many friends and family members that are also working professionals: IT analyst, professional photographer, programmer, business owner, etc.

The 'elevator pitch' was that we each blog when we have the time about our interests. By this time I knew networking is key to success here on Steemit, and none of us would be able to thread water alone.

First words back to me were 'Ponzi scheme'. All are educated working professionals; this is their perception of STEEM (steemit).

It is difficult to dissuade their opinion of STEEM when I see prevalent abuse on here myself. Even still, I do believe in the potential of Steem and invest a little here and there, but with discretionary income.

Edited: The post is about getting investors on here. If I couldn't even get users to use this platform, there is no way any would be willing to invest.

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goose20 (50) · 6 years ago

"...If I couldn't even get users to use this platform, there is no way any would be willing to invest."

That is definitely a problem. But only half the problem - from what I've gathered from my short time here so far is that once a user comes on board, staying is relatively short lived.

I've found some really good members, read several of their posts, got excited anticipating what else was to come, only to discover they haven't posted in several months (@sean-king comes to mind here). And of course there could be many reasons for members not to have posted for a period of time, but then you read others talking about members leaving in droves and you think 'oh damn'.

Steemit is now built and people come, but what's being done to keep them here.

beeyou (59) · 6 years ago

Steemit is now built and people come, but what's being done to keep them here.

There are dapps supporting users, but imo, they are supporting their own niche. Dlive and Dtube support video producers, steemhunt support the information seekers, fundition with charity, utopian-io with development, etc, etc.

Then there are the communities that support their interests: homesteaders, politics/truth seekers, country/location support, etc. etc.

I see some great writers with no support because they are not in the right communities. For those not willing to play the game on here, or don't know how, and are essentially your everyday 'average user', they really are sh*t out of luck. So they leave this platform.

I've found some really good members... only to discover they haven't posted in several months.

This user comes to mind for me. I still follow him/her because the video was amazing, and I hope the person decides to come back.

Perfect example of user turnover too. The person received curie support and that amount is more than I've made in my 8 months on Steemit. Yet, that user is no longer here because after that one big payout, the rest were slim earnings. I can list many more examples.

goose20 (50) · 6 years ago

@timcliff here is your answer summed up just perfectly right here:

"... For those not willing to play the game on here, or don't know how, and are essentially your everyday 'average user', they really are sh*t out of luck. So they leave this platform."

I totally agree.

Don't know what 'curie support' is... but it must have been demoralizing for that user to keep working hard producing content for it to be essentially ignored after a successful post like the one you've linked.

Seems it may have caused the opposite effect than intended. Rather than supporting great content and helping build a creator (intention), it showed for a brief second what was possible, only to have it disappear never to return (set the bar too high).

I'll be sticking around for a bit longer; it's still fun finding gems amongst the masses.
😉

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beeyou (59) · 6 years ago

Don't know what 'curie support' is... but it must have been demoralizing for that user to keep working hard producing content for it to be essentially ignored after a successful post like the one you've linked.

Curie is a top witness on here with their mission of supporting the small fishes with their 'Curie' upvote. You have to meet their criteria (i.e, no political, steemit-related posts, etc.) to receive their support. I have never been curie'd, and don't expect to ever be, so not sure what those exact criteria are!

You made a valid point about users being moralized after one big hit and nothing more in between. It's not just with curie, it's with any of the whale supports. Of course the random support is appreciated by the poor minnow, but not everyone is fortunate to receive continuous dolphin/whale support. So here is the conundrum, where then do they turn to support? Probably vote selling to earn passive income.

I'll be sticking around for a bit longer; it's still fun finding gems amongst the masses.

Do share more insight if you come across any I've missed! ;)

goose20 (50) · 6 years ago (edited)

Ah ok, noted. Think i'll never be curie'd either in that case. But I admire their principle.

Thanks for coming by and chatting things through... it was what I thought this platform was about, but haven't had much of it until now :)

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feelsomoon (52) · 6 years ago

I'm not a content creator so I would rather just play around with steem and see what I can build.

pjau (63) · 6 years ago

It's difficult to understand for most. Hard to explain.

The name is odd. When I tell people IRL that I earn Steem they laugh. So that's instant seriousness lost.

timcliff (73) · 6 years ago

It is based on "esteem" as in an esteemed member of the community.

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pjau (63) · 6 years ago

Didn't know that. Maybe should have called it esteem then 😁

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maxocoin (29) · 6 years ago

I agree on the "difficult to understand" part...

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yasu24 (70) · 6 years ago

I think that it is too much influenced by the price of Bitcoin.

chekohler (70) · 6 years ago

Cryptocurrency as a whole is still in its infancy and most people are just coming to grips with Bitcoin and now you throw Ethereum into the mix with this ability to create smart contracts and dApps and you’re guaranteed to be going over peoples heads! These concepts aren’t really non tech friendly and I think the same goes for steemit! While using steemit is fairly straight forward the benefit of the ecosystem to an investor who doesn’t plan on contributing with content and engaging with the community won’t see the true value of steem! It’s hard to explain the whole ecosystem because there really isn’t something you can compare it to in a traditional sense that can give an idea of how it works! Proof of brain and proof of work as the mining concept for generating value is a hard sell

If I were to try and convince someone to invest in steem id say it’s cryptocurrency with a daily function and open decentralized community supporting it and allows us to distribute media and content to independent creators! I’d say steem as one of quickest block times so they can take advantage of quick trades and it also has a dollar peg option in SBD to safe gaurd funds as well as ways to earn passive income by supporting continent creators with votes or delegation

Posted using Partiko iOS

raserrano (63) · 6 years ago

Hi there, I feel that this is a very interesting topic. In fact I don't think my comment will be as valuable as some other top comments here. But what I truly believe and also discussed yesterday with @jrb450 in the dinner we had is that the main problem is people are not finding value in the possibility to speak yourself in a platform that will get you something in return for your time and effort put in what ever you just did or post. If you are not taking advantage now you are not going to enjoy the future benefits. On the other hand I find it very hard that investors will try to put money in something that is still in beta phase as you might know some betas were never released. I'm also very happy that there has been lots of DApps that are showing up here and there and that might help attract different public. The main problem is when people does not engage, does not comment and does not vote because they want those actions to be rewarded in some kind of astronomic level. I'm not expecting to be rich with this comment I would like to see a reply but I surely value what steemit has given me so far and being able to see such a living post and example of what a good, interesting and useful post should be have made my afternoon. Thanks keep it up.

nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

Investors, know that inflation / dilution is the name of the game.

Why would they invest? Whats new?

schlafhacking (57) · 6 years ago

I read about the suckiness of the network (to few full nodes, witnesses who do not even run a full node despite earning a lot). That would drive me away as an investor.
So I did something about it and "invested" big machine (256GB RAM, 480GB redundant SSD, Gigabit Internet) and started a full node. It's in sync now and here to stay.

timcliff (73) · 6 years ago

Nice. Can you send me the details?

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frankcapital (64) · 6 years ago (edited)

⏳ STEEM is a UTILITY and also has a MINING feature (STEEM POWER REWARDS) as well a the SPECULATIVE aspect for INVESTORS.

⏳⏳STEEM can also be traded CRYPTO to CRYPTO via @blocktrades ( blocktrades.us ) so liquidity is NOT an issue or having to SIGN UP and use a CENTRALIZED EXCHANGE.

⏳⏳⏳ STEEM has a 3 second confirmation transaction time!!!

⏳⏳⏳⏳The STEEM Blockchain has the most transactions than any other BLOCKCHAIN at the moment and without any transaction fees!

⌛⌛⌛⌛⌛ STEEM has been around more than 2 YEARS and has a lot of developers contributing everyday, like @Partiko ( MOBILE APP FOR FAST AND BEAUTIFUL STEEM )

Posted using Partiko Android

7 votes

krasnec (62) · 6 years ago

Hello Tim! I told some people about Steemit and wrote to few artists in instagram, they should join Steemit as well, but without exception they was all skeptical or not interested (like I was at first, too), and the question always came up: "who pays you there ...? " or "this is not real..."
Best regards!

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stellabelle (75) · 6 years ago

Steem is a depressing and antisocial experience for 99% of users. The retention rate speaks for itself. Mass adoption will it happen with a cumbersome and overly complicated key system. Hopefully more people will find out about the Partiko app Enzo’s partially solves the boredom/depression aspect of Steemit.com by rewarding users with points for their activities like commenting, upvoting resteeming and writing. It’s the human part of the experience that Steemit never bothered to figure out. Partiko did.

Posted using Partiko iOS

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stellabelle (75) · 6 years ago

Enzo s/b Partiko

Posted using Partiko iOS

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stellabelle (75) · 6 years ago

It s/b not

Posted using Partiko iOS

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deemarshall (66) · 6 years ago

Investors want to be confident they'll make money. Steem doesn't inspire confidence because it's not a money spinner at present.

I don't invest my money in Steem yet because I am afraid of losing it. This has happened to a Steemian I know who has seen his investment drop drastically in value since he made it some 10 months ago.

It's a vicious circle at the moment.

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bossmatang (43) · 6 years ago

This investment is promising and I continue to study it

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https://steemit.com/teamaustralia/@itstime/here-is-a-dapp-idea-to-bring-the-masses-to-steem

itstime (60) · 6 years ago

We also need to bring some sizzle to platform:

get some mASSES in seats

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libertarianru (27) · 6 years ago

In general, until serious changes are expected to wait for the growth of STEEM and the arrival of investors is not worth it.
My personal opinion is that rather Telegram will come to this market and capture it!

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timcliff (73) · 6 years ago

Why decline payout on your comment?

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zerokun (52) · 6 years ago

now i'm scared with the coin less of 1 dollar go even lower...

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westcountryclegg (59) · 6 years ago

Historically September is bad news for the Stock Markets and that’s why the Terrorists hit the World Trade Centre on September the 11’th!

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azadhossain (55) · 6 years ago

can I take this steemit as my career??? plz someone tell me.

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timcliff (73) · 6 years ago

It depends how much money you need to sustain yourself, how much the community values your content, and the price of STEEM. The short answer is that few people are able to make a living/career simply off of their blog posts.

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azadhossain (55) · 6 years ago

thnx bro. that means I have to be creative and passionate.

kevbot (56) · 6 years ago

I hope people don't flock to EOS and forget Steem.

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maxocoin (29) · 6 years ago

People will flock into EOS, but I don't think that Steem has too much to worry about, they are specialized in a very niche use case.

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