The onset of automation and Artificial Intelligence promises to streamline and make efficient a great number of things in our society. One of the principal areas that is ripe for automation is the way that we travel in cars. The amount of energy that we waste in cutting the air with our cars, and the inefficient way that we drive as humans could be rectified with a fully automated transit system, with cars and trucks travelling centimeters away from each other. Another potential beneficial side effect could be that we have transportation on demand, without the need for the wasteful personal ownership of automobiles.
However, both automation (via algorithms) and AI (via learning routines) would need to be trained in what would constitute a "correct" solution to an ethical dilemma. This would have to be done by humans. So, for this SBI giveaway, I want to ask about your opinions on some very basic ethical questions. Needless to say, there are no correct answers for these questions, so I will be doing a random selection for the winner of the SBI shares.
The Questions
This is a classical Ethics question known as the Trolley Problem, where a trolley is hurtling down a track that is about to kill 5 people.
Question 1
Would you flip a switch to make the trolley kill one person instead of the five?
Question 2
Would you flip the switch if the one person to be killed was a child instead of 5 adults?
Question 3
Would you throw another person onto the tracks to stop the trolley? If they were a friend? If they were the most evil person on Earth?
Question 4
Would you buy a car that might be programmed to kill you (the occupants) instead of others if the ethical conditions were right?
Question 5
Would you buy a car that would protect you at all costs regardless of the danger or survival of other people?
My thoughts
Yes, I think I would flip the switch. In this case, I think that sheer numbers determines the correct choice. The thought of killing one person directly is somehow less disconcerting to me than killing 5 via inaction.
Again, this is trickier, I would have to say, yes. For me, the numbers matter more.
No, no and no. I can't say why, but the actual thought of directly pushing someone into harm's way seems more repugnant than flipping a switch....
I wouldn't be particularly keen. In my mind, I know it should be the right thing to do, but I have a voice screaming "don't do it"!
Again, intellectually I would have to say no, but I think I would prefer the car protects me.... But, this would become a sheer arms race.
So those are my answers as honestly as I can give them. I know there are the purer choices that I should choose, but I think if I was really honest with myself, I don't think that I would do it in real life.
So, for this week's entry. Answer the 5 questions as best as you can, with some accompanying text about your thoughts. No personal choosing of entries this week, I leave it up to a random generator!
Steem Basic Income
One of the first communities that I came in contact with at the beginning of my time at Steemit was @steembasicincome. As a beginning author, Steemit can be a daunting place. It feels like you are posting into an abyss with no ability to grow. Steem Basic Income gives you a guaranteed vote on one post a day, thus giving you a small but cumulative over time support to your account.
With this post, I want to help sponsor people who might not even have the spare 1 STEEM that is required for registration. So, when this post pays out, I will sponsor people depending on the payout of this post. Basically, I will round up the SBD payout from this post and then that will be the number of people I will sponsor. (So, if the payout is 2.3 SBD, I will sponsor 3 people).
Rules
- Upvote if you want, it increases the payout and then I can hopefully sponsor more people.
- Resteem is NOT neccessary, but the more people see this, the more the people will be likely to be sponsored.
- In the comments, answer the 5 questions with some thoughts about why you chose as you did.
- I will be sponsoring as many people as this post pays out in SBD. Also I will kick in at least the required amount to round up to the full number. Winner is by random generator this week!
Last week's winners
Some absolutely great entries last week! So hard to choose a few things to make up a meal, with so many other favourite foods having to take second place! It's like picking your favourite child....
Last post payout was 2.211 SBD. So, 3 shares that I will be sponsoring.
With so many delicious photos (and copyright minefields) I'm not going to post them here, but I direct you back to the comment section here: https://steemit.com/steembasicincome/@bengy/steem-basic-income-giveaway-design-your-last-meal
You can also see her entry in this post here: https://steemit.com/bengy/@viking-ventures/my-perfect-last-meal-my-entry-for-bengy-s-contest
and a bonus prize for @rudyardcatling with a completely hilarious entry....
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1 & 2 Flip the switch. 1 loss is better than 5.
3 no, no, yes If the others would be saved, I would "volunteer" the evil person...
4 no If we start trusting machine AI with lives, we will end up with terminator...
5 yes It is my machine, so it wouldn't be an ethics choice to buy one that protects me. It wouldn't be any different than choosing a big SUV over a motorcycle. The SUV is obviously safer. It is not making any ethics choice, simply is built stronger and safer.
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I agree that it the SUV is stronger and safer, but it is at an "unseen" cost to other road users? On the other hand, there really is no rule or law that prevents this choice either....
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Yes, and Yes. 1 person or 1 child, it's less than 5 people. assuming there's no other way to alter the conditions. The way the trolley problem is usually presented there isn't, which is significantly unlikely. You've got plenty of time to make the decision, but no time to contact the trolley itself, and no signals at the rails that could be changed. it's an unlikely scenario from poor design.
For 3, it's a definite no. pushing someone onto the tracks, or just into the way of the trolley isn't even in the same category of 'flipping the switch', it's straight out murder. The people on the tracks may or may not be aware of the oncoming vehicle, and could move without your knowledge.
Regarding the car, I would. It still comes down to numbers, and if I'm going to give up control of the vehicle, then it's similar to being in a car with someone else making the decisions, and they don't always make those decisions in your favour. You just need to see the safety record of passenger seats vs driver in accidents. And we have plenty of them. As the roads are more populated by automated vehicles talking to each other, we'll have less accidents. Then we can design the infrastructure to get people off the roads where they don't belong anyway.
No, I wouldn't. Safety sure, but not at all costs. This is what people already do, with the rise of the 4 wheel drive as a city car, because bigger is safer, ignoring that by putting more and more larger vehicles on the road, they actually get less safe because they hit each other, and those that aren't in the larger vehicles become less safe because instead of light injuries, they get significant ones, instead of significant injuries, they get critical ones... I'd rather we all drove small city cars and just had trucks as our 'large' vehicles to avoid, and ideally in the inner city, even they'd be smaller vans rather than big trucks.
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I think we have a similar outlook on most of these questions. Just with the last one, it really does become like those urban tractors on the city streets, with roo (bull) bars that have no purpose in the city but to make sure the maximum damage is not on your own car. Hopefully with automation, this sort of arms race on the streets could be done away with....
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That's where I was going with the last paragraph. more larger cars/4wd have led to more of them having bull bars to stop them being the ones damaged, upping the stakes again. I'm hopeful that the rise of automation will help reduce and remove this from being an issue.
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Excellent choice of contest content!
I would definitely flip the switch to save the five over the one. I feel the numbers play a significant factor with this decision and it would be hard to argue against the one being saved over the five.
Even though it may be more of a traumatic decision to the mind and emotions, I would still flip the switch to save the five adults over one child. You may be sacrificing the next Einstein, but you may be killing the next Hitler as well. The numbers still sway me in this situation.
I just don't feel I could sacrifice a friend with all of the unknown variables still out of reach. As far as the evil person, even though it may be tempting and I would lean towards giving the evil person to the fate and throwing him on the tracks, you do not know if you are saving someone who may be much more evil and destructive than the evil person you sacrificed. That's a hard one.
Depending on what the ethical conditions and parameters were, I would consider buying a car that would sacrifice me for the good of others. Especially if it were overwhelming numbers as in question one and two.
As powerful as the will to live and the insticnt of self-preservation is, I just don't think I could sleep at night or live with myself if I were to purchase this type of vehicle. Who is to say that I am more worthy than anyone out there? We are all sinners and saints wrapped up in a fleshy garment and we have all fallen short of the glory of God.
Thanks for hosting such an interesting contest!
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Thanks for the answers, similar answers to what I would have thought, but of course everyone has their own solutions to these questions, of which all are morally justifiable...
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I wouldnt flip the switch. Why is that 5 persons on a LIVE track anyway. That 1 person on the OFFLINE track maybe doing repair etc, which is why it is OFFLINE.
Flipping the switch would also mean sending the train to unknown OFFLINE track which may be under repairs or not working causing more unknown amount of damage and loss of lives from people on the train.
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Those are very difficult questions and obviously, we don't know what we would do.
Big dilemma right there. Do we know who those 5 adults are? they could be bad dudes and the one on the other track is the only good person left. Logic says that we go by numbers. That would mean to save the 5. But again - who are they. So, I totally don't know.
Even more difficult. And even harder without more details. Are the adults very old? then, maybe the child. Overall, logic says to save the 5 adults.
Maybe if they were the most evil person on earth who has done a lot of harm. But given the fact that I can't even dispatch a chicken, I doubt I could a person. However, to save 5 potential lives and knowing that the person is a killer, maybe coming after me or my kids, might make me do it.
& 5 is in many ways the same question. I don't think that we can trust AI and actually, it has shown that AI is prejudice - since it is learning from people with prejudice and is actually enhancing those traits. So, at this point, I would not buy either since I don't think it would make a good decision.
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Yes, the eternal dilemma of what we would say we would do, and when the time comes, what we would actually do! Thanks for your answers, it is hard to know without all the information at hand to clarify the situation, but in a fast moving situation, we just don't have perfect information anyway!
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true. it is one of those impossible questions because every decision is going to be not a good one :)
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First of all, thank you for the sponsorship!!! I really do appreciate the ability of SBI to pull posts out of the dust level.
As for your questions.
ONE. and TWO. actually get the same answer from me.
To me, the switch you described is a failed solution from the beginning. There is almost always another way! If you have time to flip a switch, you are also likely to have time to push the people out of the way or throw something in the way of the trolley car to stop it or slow it down to give the others the time needed to escape.
I am glad to not have to be in the position to decide who lives and who dies... you try your best to save them all... even if it kills you in the process.
THREE. Your bad guy might be a good thing to throw in the way to stop or slow the trolley, but the prevents any chance of redemption on the part of the bad guy. I'm again thankful that I'm not the chosen executioner of this world! I would sacrifice myself, I'm fairly sure - even if accidentally - but I wouldn't sacrifice anyone else in my stead.
FOUR. and FIVE. - we're talking about majorly advanced Artificial Intelligence - but it's designed by a corporation for whom bottom line is more important than almost anything else... So, no, I wouldn't buy either model - nor accept one as a gift. We already know what happens when bots get out of control here... (I'm probably going to be helping the people looking for ways of outwitting the AI, in your scenario.)
(Speaking of clever AI... or clever Markdown box... so, renumbered the questions.)
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Haha, yes I did see the original formatting. The most annoying thing with lists, glad you found a way around it, but I did understand the original!
I do find it amusing that we always look for a way around these dilemmas (the questions!).
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I refuse to see this type of question as a simple either/or (or yes/no) question. There's almost always another way.
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Yes, there always is another way, however we don't always have the resources (time or otherwise) to realise it! On the other hand, I guess it is part of being human to search for these!
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Hello everyone.
These are my thoughts:
1.- No. It's not a matter of quantity. The person who is alone is my mother.
2.- Yes. The child on that side is my son.
3.- Yes. I Sacrifice another to avoid a greater number of deaths. It does not matter if he is a good person or evil.
4.- It may seem selfish, but that is not in my plans.
5.- Yes: I prefer to travel protected. This approach is especially cruel.
Good luck to all the participants.
Regards
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Thanks for your answers, some interesting points!
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Q1&2 : No, I would not flip the switch. Apparently these five people are to stupid to realise that there is a trolley heading their way and refuse to get off the track.
That, and the world is getting overpopulated as it is.
Q3 : I don't have any friends, only acquaintances. But looking at my answer to the first two questions, they don't deserve to be sacrificed.
And Evil is in the eye of the beholder.
Q4: I bought a 20-year-old Seat Arosa recently.....so I would say yes.
Q5: No. These kind of cars allow their drivers to pay less attention to traffic. This is dumbing people down.
Thanks for organizing this @bengy. I enjoyed thinking about your dilemma's😉
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Haha, thanks for the answers, perhaps a survival of the fittest approach! But I do have to agree in part with the idea that evil/good is in the eye of the beholder. There is a vast gray area, and also I do really believe that "evil" is good intent gone wrong, mostly...
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2)Yes, with the same response as above. I would also concider throwing myself in front of the trolley to attempt to save the child.
3)No I would not sacrifice a friend if I'm not willing to sacrifice myself. As far as the most evil person on earth is concerned, I may if I thought it would save other lives.
4)No, Because I really don't trust AI in cars just yet, and I definitely don't trust the corporations that make the cars.
5)No, because I would not sacrifice others to save myself. Also see the answer to question 4.
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Haha, yes, another answer to the first two questions that shows we will do our very best to come out with 100 percent no casualties!
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The scenario requires making split second decisions in a highly stressful and literally life or death situation for the people involved. All you can do is hope you would react in your ideal way. As you wrote in an earlier reply, you won't know how you would truly react unless you actually experience the situation.
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Hi Bengy, would it be possible to give my share to @ftlob?
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Sure, no problem! But you have to win one first!
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Confidence Roel, that's what I like to see! :P
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Haha, I sure have confidence @atomcollector, that's true. But what I meant @bengy was if it is possible to give the share (sbi3) I now already have to @ftlob. :-) :-)
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Sorry, I'm not in charge of SBI. It is a question you have to ask here
https://discord.gg/hRpQFms
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Great Post, so many banners at the end though ;)
I'm considering the same answer as you are.
I don't want to be the direct cause of someone's death, the siwitch or leave it is some kind of destiny call. Someone really heroic might trought himself instead, but for 1 or 5 people without any guaranty to save anyone, I doubt I would do it.
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Hehe, yes now that I go and look at it, I really have to rethink that... It starts to get longer than the post!
For a complete entry, you would need to answer all the questions (5).
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Well of course. Depends on the individual tough.
If the individual was evil i would.
Again, sure, if the kid had some decease or so and that would be the better outcome, yes, otherwise i wouldn't, let the kid try to get a life.
Sure, Evil ones, yes.
Nope
Nope (I'm a programmer, I like to be the one in control regarding these things)
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Ha, unfortunately we can't always have perfect information about a situation before we are asked to act.
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Question 1
Would you flip a switch to make the trolley kill one person instead of the five?
No, 5 alive is better
Question 2
Would you flip the switch if the one person to be killed was a child instead of 5 adults?
5 still better than 1 child, maybe if the 5 people are really old and sick maybe...
Question 3
Would you throw another person onto the tracks to stop the trolley? If they were a friend? If they were the most evil person on Earth?
No direct harm of a people won't do it, not heroic enough to throw myself instead, may be considerable if the amount is very high and we have some kind of guaranty it will same the thousounds of people.
Question 4
Would you buy a car that might be programmed to kill you (the occupants) instead of others if the ethical conditions were right?
I prefer to self preserve myself, but I guess we won't know how it's programmed.
Question 5
Would you buy a car that would protect you at all costs regardless of the danger or survival of other people?
Probably, selfish, but self preservation instinct
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Thanks for your answers! Also very similar to what I think!
I think you meant yes for the first one!
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Yeah in that case yes. But still changing fate, but for what we think is less dommagable.
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First of all..... for killing someone with my own decision, no matter the number? I will let the fate to choose the thing. But since, there is no option here, there is yes or no answer, my answers are....
Normally I may choose only killing one person. But, if i know the one is far more important than others 5 or more in the society, i may choose to kill 5, rather than 1.
Killing a child would be impossible for me as fir killing others. I would choose to jump myself to save others on that situation.
If that person is most evil person in the world, i would prefer to hold him and jump on the track together. So, i do not have to live with the pain to kill soneone.
I would be happily do that. Even though I know, it will never possible for a car to make an ethical decision on its own.
Again,car will not be able to judge. Normally, I would buy this car for my family to protect. For me, obviously not much of interest.
These are my own perspectives.
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Thanks for your answers!
I have had a few people who have answered with the idea of fate. However, in my opinion, the action of doing nothing (fate?), is in itself an action of choosing. Thus, fate ends up what you have decided after the fact, and not something that you are intervening or overriding via your choice or non choice.
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That is easy to accept than, than killing someone with your decision.
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But surely, by choosing NOT to do anything, you are tacitly choosing to kill 5? At least, that is the way I view it, I am curious how you view it!
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You never know the future... All of them could survive. That's also a possibility. Yeah.. all 5 of them could die too.
But, you know what you should call people like us, who are choosing to let the fate decide??
We are weak minded, we can't actually choose the right or wrong. We always hesitate and remain neutral to be in clear ourselves.
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Question 1
Absolutely. Simple math. Inaction is just as bad as acting and in this case the decision is simple (for me)
Question 2
Lol... absolutely. Children are the future ... but again it's simple math for me. No other factors involved, kiddie gets squashed.
Question 3
This would be more challenging. It depends how long I had to react. If it were a friend I would say no, evil person absolutely. See ya future Hitler
Question 4
Ha! Part of me wants to say yes to avoid sounding hypocritical but in this case my survival instinct wins out. NO!
Question 5
Yes. This sounds like a tank. Yes, I would like to drive a tank. Please include the optional remote controlled machine gun package.
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Ha ha, apart from the third one it is similar to my thoughts or at least in a thought experiment situation....
LOL for the tank! And kudos for the honest answer for 4!
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1.- It is a terrible decision, but I would try to save as many as I can. Yes, I would turn on the switch.
2-Adults have a responsibility to protect every child on this planet. I would save the child.
3.- If that person was evil, I would do it. These people have no recovery, they will always try to hurt, so at the first opportunity to get rid of it I would do it. For example, I would push President Maduro and his cabinet without a little mercy and repentance.
4.- First I have to read to what "ethical" conditions the programming of that car refers. If they match mine, probably if I would buy it.
5.I suppose that the programming of this car also responds to certain "ethical" conditions like that of the other car. If they match mine, probably if I would buy it.
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Thanks! Slightly different to what I would answer, but then we are all different and there are no definitive 'right' answers!
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Interesting questions!
Question 1
Would you flip a switch to make the trolley kill one person instead of the five? I would, but why not tell at them and tell them to move? Maybe of all 6 were tied to the tracks...
Question 2
Would you flip the switch if the one person to be killed was a child instead of 5 adults? I would, then try to warn them, get them off the track...
Question 3
Would you throw another person onto the tracks to stop the trolley? If they were a friend? If they were the most evil person on Earth?
I would never throw a person, but maybe if I had the courage I might jump in front.
Question 4
Would you buy a car that might be programmed to kill you (the occupants) instead of others if the ethical conditions were right? No, ethics programming is very unlikely to work.
Question 5
Would you buy a car that would protect you at all costs regardless of the danger or survival of other people? No, again any ethical decisions should not be left up to AI.
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Interesting answers, thanks for the entry! I'm seeing many people trying to save everyone!
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this is a really cool idea!
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What I would do, if I could act with perfect clarity and efficiency, and what would actually happen: they are quite different things!
I can see myself standing still, in shock, as I watch the trolley flatten the small crowd. I would be unable to act in time.
I can also see myself examining the switch, thinking: 'what does this do exactly?' Whoops, again, I am too late to save anyone.
But! Looking from an ethical standpoint, meaning I have all the time I need to evaluate the situation and ponder the consequences of my actions, there's little doubt about what I should do about the homicidal trolley.
My answers would be yes, yes, yes, yes and no.
Questions 4 and 5 give me some pause, though. What if I own an autonomous car, and my car, following its program, ends up sacrificing someone. I am assuming I chose the car, and I adjusted the car's safety settings in order to minimize human casualties. And then my car stops the trolley, at the expense of the car's unlucky passenger. One life lost, to save five.
Yes, those last two questions were deceptively simple. Because I would not give up my personal responsibility, by delegating a difficult choice to an automated process.
So, to 4 and 5: yes, I would be okay with my car killing me to save human lives; and no, I would not be okay with my car taking human lives to save mine. But in both cases, it would have to be my decision. It would be inefficient, but my car's software would have to pause and ask for my permission to proceed.
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Thanks for the answers! The last two would be choices made a long time in advance (pretty much at the time of signing the terms of use!) about a situation far in the future. Apart from my curiosity about how people feel about AI, it was also a bit of curiosity about the further abstraction of choice from consequences!
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