— SteemCN

samupaha (66) · 8 years ago

Now, seriously, what the hell is wrong with you? Mark Lyford is well known scammer and because Michael defends him so fiercely, it's pretty clear he can't be trusted.

You are not going to win anything by defending scammers. You are just ruining your own reputation. You are hurting reputations of Steem and Bitshares very badly with that kind of behavior. It doesn't do any good to be associated with scams.

$31.27

11 votes

stan (71) · 8 years ago

It's simple really. I know what I'm talking about. I know the massive things Michael and I are working on for the benefit of BitShares and Steemit and I know that this is not a scam.

I understand your guilt by association theory. So I am putting my reputation on the line to counteract that unfair behavior. Now you have two reputations to try to smear.

$9.64

onceuponatime (72) · 8 years ago

He already threatens my reputation: "And I say this to you too: By defending a scammer you are ruining your own reputation."

"A demagogue /ˈdɛməɡɒɡ/ (from Greek δημαγωγός, a popular leader, a leader of the mob, from δῆμος, people, populace, the commons + ἀγωγός leading, leader)[1] or rabble-rouser is a leader in a democracy who gains popularity by exploiting prejudice and ignorance among the common people, whipping up the passions of the crowd and shutting down reasoned deliberation.[1][2][3] Demagogues have usually advocated immediate, violent action to address a national crisis while accusing moderate and thoughtful opponents of weakness or disloyalty. Demagogues violate established rules of political conduct. Most demagogues who were elected to high office changed their democracy into some form of dictatorship."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue

$9.25

16 votes

recursive (62) · 8 years ago

Stan, with all due respect, it's not as much your reputation that we are caring about as much as that of @dan, @ned and Steem/Steemit. I've been following Dan's work since the very beginning of Bitshares. I'm a very senior developer myself, and I have to say that I am humbled by what Dan and his dev team have been achieving in such a short time. And at the same time I am totally underwhelmed and at times sickened by the very poor marketing of his projects. There is no question that Graphene is a software chef-d'oeuvre and Bitshares and Steem mind blowing social and economic experiments. It really makes me sick to see the otherwise stellar reputation these projects could have be tarnished by getting associated with the type of crappy marketing ploy and sketchy individuals we are discussing about here. As Dan's father, I wish you cared more for your genius son's reputation than that of your sketchy friends. Enough said.

$4.01

walnut (35) · 8 years ago

You know nothing about mass marketing appeal. Sorry.

$0.00

stan (71) · 8 years ago

Wait and see.

$0.00

onceuponatime (72) · 8 years ago

Some of the naysayers lack objectivity in my opinion. I have personal experience of the honesty of the principals. Businesses do fail. Probably less than 1 in 10 startups work out. I was fully reimbursed in my investment project with MichaelX when regulatory hurdles and other factors put the project to an end.

I know investors lost money with Mark Lyford's project, but there were no funds left to reimburse when he was forced to close it down due to lack of operating capital. That is not scamming. I know many very successful businessmen who weren't successful on their first try. I have lost on some investments in the crypto world, and gained on others.

Please be objective in evaluating this proposal.

I upvoted the post and Stan Larimer's comment.

$7.29

samupaha (66) · 8 years ago

It is scamming when the business and money collection is continued even when it's clear that it will fail. I view Lyford as a long-con man. He doesn't try to do quick money and run, but instead he is milking as much as he can from same people. I've seen his videos so I know he can be very convincing – I was even convinced of him when I first stumbled upon his businesses. Fortunately I was too lazy to make any investments at the time.

Lyford didn't just lose the investment money because of some unforeseeable difficulties. His business plans were doomed to fail from the beginning. He is only a marketing guy who knows to sell, but apparently he has no intention of actually delivering the products. He just takes the money and says "oops, it didn't work out". And after a while he has new business which will go exactly the same way.

I've met people like him before and I don't want to see them here in Steem.

And I say this to you too: By defending a scammer you are ruining your own reputation.

$5.10

6 votes

onceuponatime (72) · 8 years ago

Please tell us how you were scammed. Never mind what someone else says about someone else, innuendo and demagoguery. Please speak from first hand knowledge of how YOU were scammed. I have spoken from first hand knowledge of how I was treated fairly.

$4.89

15 votes

recursive (62) · 8 years ago (edited)

please tell us how you were scammed. Never mind what someone else says about someone else, innuendo and demagoguery

@onceuponatime: please tell us how you were attacked personally by @samupaha that justifies your intervention. Never mind what someone else says about someone else, isn't that what you just said?

And by the same token of non-intervention in larger community issues that doesn't affect one personally, we shouldn't care about anything that doesn't affect us personally: child abuse, rape, murders, theft etc. Let it be, it's none of our business. Is that what you are saying?

$4.05

whiteknight (27) · 8 years ago

People make mistakes. He was too ambitious. He and others failed. All of whom knew the risk.

$0.00

4 votes

recursive (62) · 8 years ago (edited)

I know investors lost money with Mark Lyford's project, but there were no funds left to reimburse when he was forced to close it down due to lack of operating capital. That is not scamming.

Banx has been paying "dividends" until Q4 2015 out of "profits" (which means that Banx was supposedly operating at a profit) all the while trying to sell more shares using MLM. A few months later it was bust. Now how do you explain that a business that was so profitable that it could afford to pay dividends can burn all of its retained profits and capital in a couple of months and go bust because they didn't manage to sell more shares, all without a single good reason to explain that surprising blow up? Well the only explanation that makes sense is that banx wasn't making that much profits and had been paying dividends off share capital to keep new investors coming. That's called a ponzi scheme, and ponzi schemes are almost always scams unless they clearly advertize themselves as such. In the extremely unlikely event that Banx was victim of an unfortunate blackswan event, Lyford would be able to prove it easily by opening his accounting books and showing how all the income flows got squeezed and how all the capital went away. In the meantime, you can't blame people for applying Occam's razor and assuming that Banx was a ponzi scam.

$4.08

4 votes

whiteknight (27) · 8 years ago

Thank you for vouching for the business relations you have had in the past with us and your experience. I appreciate objective comments.

$0.03

michaelx (61) · 8 years ago

Someone who worked on the LottoShares project - you know, the one that didn't work out but everyone was refunded (not typical in this industry). I am sure you will find a way to call that a scam too.

$0.00

whiteknight (27) · 8 years ago

I could have answered @michaelx

You beat me to it.

$0.00

samupaha (66) · 8 years ago

Who are you?

$0.00

michaelx (61) · 8 years ago

$0.00

Reveal Comment

michaelx (61) · 8 years ago (edited)

Instead of calling names why don't we try to be productive here and discuss how we can make this initiative work?

How is THIS a scam? It's already been paid for out of our pockets.

We aren't asking YOU or anyone else for money, other than votes and initiative support...oh and maybe contribution of effort to help the community.

I defended Mark because of several reasons, not that I have to answer to you. I didn't like the way that people were treating him, regardless of past mistakes nobody has a right to treat people like they are trash. Sorry.

If it were you being attacked I would defend you as well. Even with you hating me and downvoting me out of spite now.

As for whether or not I can be trusted, I will leave that for the folks like Stan and Dan to decide. They know the time, money, effort, work, and myriad of other things I have contributed, and I am very comfortable in what I have given.

You don't know me at all, so your making statements about the veracity of my integrity or anything else holds no water.

You downvoted this post and caused considerable harm, which is sad because this has some major potential to bring 100x more people to Steemit.

Maybe you can put your pitchfork and torch down?

I am sorry you hate me so much, hopefully over time you will see that I have been a major contributor to Bitshares, and now to Steemit.

$0.03

11 votes

recursive (62) · 8 years ago

@michaelx: how about you do whatever you will do on your own instead of trying to coerce this community in approving something that it should already be clear by now we don't approve at all? Granted, if you are not the one who attempts the get-rich-quick scheme MLM marketing, someone else will, so feel free to do it if you want with whoever you want, we won't stop you, but do that under your own name and reputation without dragging in Bitshares, Steem or Cryptonomex. And please spare us the entitlement: this community doesn't have to agree with your ideas just because you have good connections in the Bitshares world.

$3.99

michaelx (61) · 8 years ago (edited)

If I wanted to get rich I wouldn't give away all of the money on the front to people to encourage growth. Also, you have no idea what an MLM is. This doesn't qualify in the least.

I will discuss whatever I want, when I want - especially WHEN RELEVANT.

Entitlement - the only entitlement I see around here is people like you and your friends bullying everyone.

I will address whom I want, when I want, how I want.

I came here to help - if you don't want it fine.

PS - @recursive I sent steemit 1k new members TODAY before BREAKFAST- what did you do to grow the community?

I am mentoring over 1k people on steemit now. What have you done today?

Spare ME.

$0.00

liondani (69) · 8 years ago

He invited us to join him in St Maarten where we met other famous names from BitShares history

This meeting kicked off many working relationships that have stood the test of time.

I am sure that is one of the reasons you can't be objective today... As said nobody doubts Mark Lyford is very smart and probably made an exceptional marketing tool... BUT sadly his reputation is VERY BAD (deserved or not) ... SO it is not the smartest thing to relate his name with steemit! The same was the case with BANX shares! The fail of BANX has hurt bitshares reputation massively, since the assets BANX was created on bts and had obviously your support! Don't repeat the same mistakes like on bitshares, please! I know you have good intentions but you must THINK BIGGER PIGGY... (to use your words from past)

$5.07

5 votes

stan (71) · 8 years ago (edited)

People generally get reputations like Mark's because of people like you piling on when you don't have all the facts. I have no idea what his history is. I only know he's a nice guy who helped Michael build an awesomely powerful product for BitShares and Michael decided to offer it here on a silver platter. Now you are doing the same smear to Michael who I work with on a daily basis. What kind of a man would I be if I didn't stand up for my friends when they are being swarmed by a lynch mob?

$1.95

6 votes

recursive (62) · 8 years ago

Don't you think it's ironic that you trust someone to market Steem when he can't even market himself? I know what happened with Banx, but I'm not going to speak about that here, it's not even necessary. Even without going into the detail of just how incredibly sketchy Banx has been, Lyford has proven to be able to turn a business in a high growth sector into an embarrassing public scandal where many people lost money. Track record speaks for itself. There is exactly no valid reason I can think of to want to do business with him. There is only downside.

$4.14

michaelx (61) · 8 years ago

lol, concentrate on yourself instead of tearing others down.

$0.00

johnsmith (64) · 8 years ago (edited)

For what it's worth, I've been following Stan for years on the Bitshares project. He's a stand up guy and I've never seen anything but wisdom, humor and honesty come from his corner. If Stan says something or someone is solid, it's good enough for me. My $0.02 SD. ;)

$3.02

8 votes

stan (71) · 8 years ago (edited)

Thanks. I appreciate the thought. If more of us stood up for other people's reputations rather than being so quick to tear them down, the world would be a better place. Nothing is more precious to someone and yet so easily damaged by those who are careless about other people's valuables.

$1.95

5 votes

liondani (69) · 8 years ago

I have no idea what his history is.

don't know how to interpret this!

Now you are doing the same smear to Michael who I work with on a daily basis.

Are you sure you wanted to answer to me? When did I mention Michael ???

$0.00

michaelx (61) · 8 years ago

I should never have offered them the option of having an opinion or taking a role in shaping it.

I thought this place was about community.

$0.00

stan (71) · 8 years ago (edited)

This is Michael's post and therefore his Steem reputation you are slamming simply because he offered you a chance to help refine a training product that Mark helped him build.

$0.00

michaelx (61) · 8 years ago

It's MY initiative and my post. You downvoted. This conversation is a personal attack on me based on peoples EXTREME IGNORANCE when it comes to mass marketing.

Case and Point - my friend standing next to me in the picture stan posted owns the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QVC

He also owns "as seen on tv"

@ned - seriously - without a conversation emperor Mao? you know who I am and you know how to get ahold of me.

The other side is my friend Julian that has ran over 1 BILLION in sales in 24 months to social offers on facebook.

You are not helping this community @ned @liondani or the rest of you.

Centralization, censorship and oligarchy. I am so glad I own my own PR company and new distribution service. They thrive on that.

$0.00

recursive (62) · 8 years ago

@michaelx: I'd expect from a great marketer to be at the very minimum able to have a good image. If you can't market yourself successfully, why should we trust you not to also damage Steem's image?

$0.00

walnut (35) · 8 years ago

@recursive my image is fine - see @carlvanderpal comments.

he is informed. You are biased. My image is fine, and I have zero to be ashamed of when it comes to community building.

I brought over 1k valuable members today. What did you do @recursive ?

$0.00

michaelx (61) · 8 years ago

God forbid anyone every slander or defame you - unwarranted or not. Then you are DEAD to us @liondani

$0.00

recursive (62) · 8 years ago

Great, a death threat in (not even) disguise or (incredibly bad taste) dark humour.. I'm totally thrilled at the idea of having you do marketing for Steem.

$0.00

michaelx (61) · 8 years ago (edited)

Your statement is stupid - quit already. @liondani and I see eye to eye on many things.

Stop .

$0.00