And here I thought things would go back to normal. Both Chains go their own way.
But no, both chains continue withholding funds from their users in a useless battle against each other.
Withholding funds is wrong. It was wrong in HF 22.2, it was wrong when forking the Hive chain and is wrong in HF 23.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Neither does Three!
Withholding funds sends a signal to the investors that their funds aren't save and can to taken away by the witnesses at any moment.
Steem (and to a lesser degree Hive) are currently showing me that my funds are not save and are only one hard fork away from been seized by the witnesses.
In the past all I have to fear when criticising a witnesses was a downvote. Now I have to fear that my funds are seized at the next hard fork.
The only good news is the faster power down giving me a change to get out of here ASAP.
No, you have destroyed Steem.
I agree with a lot of this aside from:
But I agree that seizing funds in both cases was wrong. I will say that on Steem there were blatant attacks against the chain by some of the witnesses who had stake removed, and it is arguable that it was done in protection of the chain. My problem is that there was very little notice, and no recognition of what each of the users had done as individuals that merited seizing their stake.
In similar regards, the Hive fork was also with very little notice (the code was published the morning of, and that is when we found out we were on the blacklist), and its seizing of funds wasn't based on any attack that had happened. It was in order to protect from possible attacks. Many users who had their funds seized (such as myself) were voting for several Hive witnesses along with Tron witnesses. I can't speak for others, but my father and I (and likely the Korean proxy) did this to ensure that neither party gained full control.
In both cases, I think that you are right that the action of seizing funds taints the chain, and looks horrible to potential investors. Especially when the account the funds are sent to is not even secure.
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Agreed, I never voted for the other witnesses, but I too thought the stale mate would keep the chain safe until things calmed down. So, I can totally understand that.
I have to side with the hive team that they can pick and choose who they gave the tokens to, but it just caused a lot of bad feelings that I am not sure were worth it in their eyes.
Mostly though, I just no longer trust this deployment of DPOS on either chain and feel frustrated there isn't a greater level of respect for Stake. Investors should avoid.
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In regards to Hive, have you seen this? I think it proves that we were given tokens and then the tokens were taken away.
I agree a lot about DPOS. I actually wonder if it would be better to redesign the governance entirely.
I wonder if having 3 groups of 10 main witnesses elected differently would be a good solution. For instance, 10 witnesses chosen by the stake voting for them, 10 chosen for the number of active accounts voting for them, and 10 with the largest amount stake in their wallet that decide to become witnesses. The 10 with the largest stake can either choose to become a witness, or choose to use their stake to vote for the stake based voting. I think this (or something like it) would help to create a much better system of checks and balances. I also wonder if there can be a way to have a community veto of a hardfork or soft fork by allowing the community to vote on it a week prior (or some other method).
Whatever the system becomes, I definitely think it needs to be changed. We plan to possibly write a post about it some day.
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No, I hadn't seen it.
At the end of the day for me, this deployment of DPOS has proven a handful of people can not only make undisclosed changes, send false signals but also tamper with stake. That goes against everything I wanted from crypto.
Still could be an okay blogging platform.
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It was wrong in all three cases. To protect the chain a forced power down would have been enough. The witnesses of both chains did the worse they for trust they could do: freeze and seize funds.
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Yes, I did not agree with freezing funds either (though there were also two instances of freezing. The first being of Steemit's funds, the second being sf 22.8888).
I will say that seizing funds was something intended for the protocol by Dan Larimer when he creatted DPos. That article is from my father @remlaps.
Though I had not heard of the idea of a forced power down. That might have been a good solution!
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If a potentially malicious account is powered down it can't do any damage any more. The account can cash in its STEEM and SDB and leave then chain or challenge the decision and if successful power up again.
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One thing that must be considered is the possibility of a malicious account sending to the exchange, and then sending their funds to a different account to power up. Though I would say that in this case, I think all of the users effected were already powering down and leaving, so I think your solution would have worked.
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You're funds weren't seized, just not duplicated. You can convert your steem to hive at anytime.
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Except they were duplicated.
There's the block from the hive explorer showing how many funds I had that were transferred out of my account.
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Lol, it wasn't transferred...and you know this!
Just a FYI, I voted to approve all airdrops. So I believe you deserve the mirrored funds, but again, nothing was taken from you.
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Thank you very much for your vote! I appreciate it a lot!
I must say that I disagree, but what's in the past is in the past. I'm just never gonna use Hive.
Again, thanks a lot!
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Yeah, I am already on the spamminator list. I don't care enough to stick around until I'm downvoted to negative 12. I didn't vote for centralization, and now I am going to use the platform that hasn't disrespected and disowned me.
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I hear they are treating even you bas over there on hive lol. Watching them gloat about it is particularly disturbing. Sorry, off-putting is a better choice.
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Their funds were duplicate and now in the @steem.dao acc. Source : https://peakd.com/proposal/@crypticat/burn-821-hbd-day
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Correct, I just wish the pre Justin steem witnesses would take responsibility for seizing funds initially. They based it on pure imaginative cause and it wasn't right despite the spin being placed on it. Its quite rich to see the hive supporters now up in arms when steemit is now responding in kind with cause based on actions and not speculation.
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No, the steem witnesses that froze Justin's stake ruined the best thing to happen to steem. A prominent figure in crypto taking notice of the platform and making an investment.
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I partially agree there. The witnesses should not have frozen the funds. Freezing funds is wrong.
But, as we now know, the mistrust in @justinsunsteemit was justified. @justinsunsteemit is indeed an authoritarian who desires dictatorial control over the anything he purchases.
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Im sorry, you've confused yourself and morw important you're likely going to confuse someone else.
Steem witnesses were free to mistrust Justin. No matter that cause, they had no right to freeze his stake [FIRST]
if someone purchases something, its common sense theu would expect control over their keys.
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True but as I posted earlier:
Retaliating with even worse measurements made it only worse.
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Incorrect, if they set the precedent of fund freezing for protection of the chain from some future event, so too it is prudent for Justin to do the same.
Justin is in fact more responsible to do so since the hive witnesses with all their newly found fortune and new ninja mine only publicly proclaimed their only intent was to dump all their steem to destabilize the chain and token price. Furthering their objective of punishing those who have not flocked to hive.
Its the pot calling the kettle black. Except its worse because the initial aggressor of stake here did so because of whatever their imaginations allowed their minds to create, but the latter is doing so to protect users that have remained and still have stake on steemit with a factual basis to do so.
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Sorry, no matter how much you cry and spin the story, you can thank your hive creators for starting the series of unfortunate events that have spiraled out of control.
Instead of focusing on what you don't care about here, why aren't you guys advocating for those you malicously excluded from the hive airdrop? Its been like a month. Its also really odd that the blacklist you guys created is now being pawned off as an error.
I literally watched in real time so many prominent figures in hive so happy to have carried out the exclusion.
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Just check my comments on hive and you see I did. You can also check my votes on the hive proposal system in favour of airdropping to blacklisted accounts.
One can oppose all freezing, blacklisting and seizing of funds.
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But has it happened yet? No. I think the energy being wasted here by (somehow still) unhappy hive members is misplaced.
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No, it's perfectly places.
What you are missing is that you can be a member of both chains. There is no official requirement to close one account and only use one chain.
Mind you: After @justinsunsteemit did the ultimate evil and seized funds I'm powering down and wait for good time to sell.
On scale of 1 … 10 — with 10 being most evil:
With each step it got worse and there is only one step left: stealing everyones funds.
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I wish I could format.
/methinks do you even format?
Sorry I need to brush up on formatting.
Im not missing anything. I know people can be a part of both chains.
You mention in another comment not too far from here that 'two wrongs don't make a right' [acknowledgment of the initial hive witness freeze of Justin's funds to be blatantly wrong and provocative.
It would be refreshing then to see the holier than thou vitriol to die down and it has to start with hive and their proponents. They started this entire mess and they will have to be a large part of the solution rather than playing kryptoKaren on Twitter and falsifying information to crypto news sites that assume(wrongfully) that hive community has the capacity to share their dealings without making stuff up and only present facts including their own personal accountability.
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That is what I would have hoped for as well. Both chains going their own way and not making it worse then it already was.
And then I read about the blacklist and the bug in the script creating the blacklist.
I don't know if you know but the idiots on Hive used a script to create the blacklist and there had been a bug adding innocent accounts.
What a mess.
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No, the bug was NOT a bug. It was intentional and used as a means of punishment aimed at those who didn't pile onto Justin for fabricated causes.
The rebrand of blacklist to error was in response to blowback.
Also if it was an error as they are conveniently claiming after the fact, why the gloating on steemit borking a fork, yet claiming an error while doing a fork of their own.
The irony is pretty thicc in this comment section since those with the most to say and criticism have the most experience and were the stewards of the chain.
Also, why havent those affected by the bug been airdropped their tokens if it was supposed to be corrected?
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