2 Problems Plaguing Steemit That Synereo Could Potentially Solve

in synereo •  8 years ago  (edited)

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Problem #1: Steemit users have no control over their personal safety and whom they choose to associate with or not associate with.

How It Has Been Handled So Far:

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The reputation system has been a good band-aid approach with decreasing the visibility of posts from abusive users, but it has not truly solved the problem.

The overwhelming response so far has been total disregard of users’ personal safety.

The one email I did receive had an interrogating tone and it contained a particularly insensitive and ridiculous question, “Do you keep responding to his messages?” One look at my history would reveal that I have ignored this user for months and do not have any engagement whatsoever with him. The last sentence was particularly insensitive with promises to “look into it” and also, “It may violate our privacy agreement.” Basically, the contents of the email response were disregard, insensitivity and inaction, thereby communicating to me that the developers have no real interest in my safety and peace of mind.

Examples: One user has received repeated rape threats, going back over a month.

Many other users have received ongoing harassment. I have been doxxed twice now on Steemit by a mentally unstable user that I am unable to disconnect from. Here’s a definition of doxing: “Doxing may be carried out for various reasons, including to aid law enforcement, business analysis, extortion, coercion, harassment, online shaming, and vigilante justice.”

Negative Effects of Steemit.com’s Inaction Regarding User Safety: Mass fleeing from the site. Lack of trust in both the developers and inherent design structure of Steemit. There was no compassion built into the code.

Solution: Synereo, the newest decentralized social media platform has already solved this problem by their intelligently designed social structure which is implemented with safety and privacy built into their model.

From Synereo: “The privacy of your communications and contacts is baked into the structure of the network.”

Start watching this video from 4:05.

Synereo works in this manner:

One user requests to become connected to another via a notification system. The user who receives the invitation can either accept or reject the invitation. Synereo has built-in introduction protocol that removes the problem of harassment and unwanted contact. Synereo follows the same organic social rules that govern real-life social interaction, with users ultimately being in control of who they associate with. The whole censorship thing is thrown out the window because social groups form organically and are voluntary in nature. Synereo has been designed with normal, social humans in mind who value their own personal safety and ability to control their own social life.

Metaphors:

Steemit is like being at a party in a drug dealer’s basement, with lunatics grabbing your ass whenever they feel like it, and everyone around you just saying, “Deal with it, bitch.”

Synereo is like being in your own private house where you have control over who you want to make business deals with, invite to dinner or go to bed with.

Problem #2: Popular and well-respected, valuable content creators and influencers and also those with high reputation do not currently control the direction of the reward system.

Also, popular and engaging content is not receiving the appropriate monetary rewards.

Examples: Take one of @tuck-fheman’s latest episodes of Steemocracy:

https://steemit.com/steemocracy/@tuck-fheman/steemocracy-a-steem-comic-or-volume-11-or-jeff-berwick-interviews-dan-and-ned

So far it has 159 upvotes and 26 comments which has resulted in $6.97. 159 upvotes is worth more than $6.97 obviously. His artwork is all original and it is a hilarious look at some of the inner drama that is ongoing within the Steemit universe. If I had the means, I would personally want to add at least $100 to @tuck-fheman’s payout, as I think it is high-quality, labor-intensive and extremely hilarious plus being insightful. Tuck also has a very high reputation on Steemit. How this did not make it to the top of the “HOT” category, I don’t understand.

Let’s look at one of my posts that received 353 upvotes and 138 comments.

Guess how much the payout was? $142. Here is the post in question: https://steemit.com/steemit/@stellabelle/forget-about-the-fucking-money-on-steemit-for-a-second-dedicated-to-klye-who-shook-up-my-brain
I’m not bitching here, but merely showing that the correlation between popular votes & engaging commentary and monetary rewards doesn’t currently exist on Steemit. It’s an arbritary system that inherently makes little sense.

Another issue: one of the accounts I value the most is @dana-edwards. The monetary rewards are not flowing to this user even though it is one of the most valuable and intelligent ones in existence on Steemit currently. To give you an idea how much I value this user’s content: if the posts from @dana-edwards stopped, I would follow this user to a different social platform, just to get the content. See this Synereo post by @dana-edwards to get more technical insight about this emerging platform.

Negative Effects: Mass fleeing from Steemit.

To professional writers, influencers and others who could be beneficial, Steemit doesn’t look very appealing, and it currently has a downgraded status among quality content creators, writers and others. I have asked several professional writers and the consensus is: “Steemit is like a casino.” I have to admit, they have a very valid point.

Solution: Synereo’s structure is built upon an attention economy which is at the core based upon the reputation of content creators as opposed to the monetary reward system being controlled by a handful of powerful whales (all of whom occupy a very narrow demographic.)

This is a fairly good explanation of Synereo's design:

On the Synereo network, there is a built-in economy that understands our attention as a scarce commodity and thus we should be paid if someone wants to reach our attention (and mainly - if we create a content that attracts attention of other people). In the network, there is a built in reputation system called REO and the higher our REO is, the more must an advertiser pay to reach our attention. Also the higher our REO is, the more people can see our content organically (it has a higher reach). This new economy and reputation system incentivize people to be a valuable part of their community.” Source: -http://tsuforum.com/topic/1226-synereo-decentralized-social-network/
Watch this video to get an overview of how Synereo works:

It remains to be seen whether the Synereo system outperforms Steemit since its launching its alpha phase in September, but the fact that the creators of Synereo have been developing and fine tuning their platform for two years would indicate that it has achieved a level of sophistication, compassion, intricacy and intelligence that is currently lacking in the Steemit platform.

If Steemit doesn’t pivot soon, it will most likely see a further degradation in quality, user engagement and adoption, all of which will result in an ustoppable downward trend.

Stay tuned because I will be joining Synereo and doing real-world comparisons with these two platforms. One thing is glaringly clear with the introduction of Synereo, the centralized platforms like Facebook are definitely on their way out.

The future looks good for content creators and those who possess integrity.

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  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Leah I understand your frustration:

However saying that we have disregarded your safety is false

We cannot help what information people can find from other sources and post.

We can build the site to allow for muting. If muting hasn't worked please accept my apology. We are working around the clock to move this website forward.

To give context to this situation, Dan responded to you personally, even offering that we would look into the identity of the offender and disclose that information law permitting, and the entire message thread considered, it appears your quotes are taken out of context. Dan was only trying to help when he asked if you had responded to him.

As far as moving this platform forward, we are actively engaging in creative problem solving to improve the economics of post and curation rewards as well as turn Steemit from a blockchain-site into a thriving and personalized social media site. More on that soon.

As far as comparisons to Synereo and other blockchain-based platforms for social networking, I would like to see more comparisons of the economics at the protocol and rewards levels. This is the third comparison piece I've seen in three days and none have ventured to go so far as to compare the economic incentive models and friction points

I still believe steemit will be top gun. Its a new program of course there is going to be hiccups! Thanks @ned for response. I also think you and @dan should be more involved in finding great content and not voting for the same people over and over again.

I agree with you steemit is amazing I am loving it! But you can't expect something new to not have some issues when it begins and I feel as though most people understand and accept this.

I feel some people may be getting too used to receiving thousands of dollars for every post, and then when it stops happening for every single post they panic and start to think about jumping ship rather than doubling down and trying harder to regain their attention.

Whilst I would love the whales to spread the votes more, can we really ask people to vote up content just to get it viewed? Even if they really aren't interested in it? Just to be fair to people who haven't made it big yet?

My best post earned me $360 and that blew my mind, but I don't expect all my posts to do that well. As an original content maker for steemit I want honest feedback so I know my work was valued for what it was, not just given votes because I've put out a few posts and they seem to be ok and I haven't made thousands like some.

I'm happy to just keep posting away and hope I get some more genuine interest.

It is possible that Steemit may be growing faster than it's market cap can support. As someone mentioned, it's very easy to blog but very hard to buy Steem Power. You can't buy Steem Power with fiat, with a credit card, etc, and this bottle neck is the reason why payouts decrease for everyone, not just top bloggers. Because as more people join, they want to blog, but the amount of money in the pool is decreasing because not enough people are buying Steem Power for the growth rate of Steemit to be sustainable with the current group of bloggers.

More bloggers than there is buyers for Steem Power may be the problem.

The market will work it self out. If more and more growth is happening Crypto investors will come into by Steem. Let's don't worry about the price. Let's focus on getting this platform to reward great quality content and fair curation.

If that is the issue how can they promote people buying steem power?

Would there be a way for some people or companies/organisations to pay to have their posts promoted?

If this were to happen (and I'm not really sure how I feel about tbh) I think it would require a feature to make it stand out as obviously paid for content promotion.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

@krystle Yes, right from the beginning of the design, paying to boost your content has been built into the system. It's an intentional design to entice businesses to use Steem as a marketing and press release type platform.

It doesn't mean that the material will necessarily make it to the top-hits page, I mean #trending, but especially when groups are implemented, it can push such posts up to the tops of group trending filter pages.

And furthermore, the benefit for everyone is that, if a business buys and vests steem to promote its marketing, the entire steemosphere gets a boost to available rewards!

Could not have said it better myself. Cant expect a polished product in beta and we need to be patient and understanding off this fact . Steemit i believe will be all i hoped it will be , but Rome wasn't built in a day : ) . Hang in there because a little faith goes a long way.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Exactly something way to polished when its not even done seems a bit sketch.
Trial and error is the best way to go.

I agree as well that Steemit will be the top gun. Problems are being ironed out and the platform is progressing rapidly. That is great others are working on other platforms but it isn't here yet. Steemit is here and the payouts are very real. There is a lot of smart money on this platform and more smart money coming on board. Personally I wasn't impressed by the look of Synereo in the demo video either. While everyone is dreaming of platforms that aren't out yet I will make sure I put up a lot of quality posts and comments on Steemit and actually get paid instead of dreaming of getting paid on something that isn't here yet.

Highest degree of logic and reasoning right here from brianphobos. Yea, obviously keep in eye out for other emerging tech.. but until those platforms are formidable, might as well just Steem it up and claim a piece of the only pie that is hot and ready for dessert. Speculation is unproductive, plain and simple.

Literally just talked about this here and your comment gets 20x more then my post. Lmao gotta love it... all about timing and placement, I'm not bitching I have other plans then "will-zewe". I agree 100% though they need to promote others and not constantly support a few people. https://steemit.com/steemit/@will-zewe/whales-on-steemit-should-act-like-talent-agents

That is why steemit is badass man. you never know when you will get noticed. But yea whales should spread their votes so we can get a better foundation.

Oh yes, steemit is so badass, I agree 100%. This platform blows centralized networks out of the water regardless of hiccups in my opinion. I used minds in the past and it was terrible compared to how steemit is for usability. I think this site is just fine and dandy personally.

The whales just need to promote quality regardless of the topic right now, spread the votes around like you said. Whales are like newspaper editors, they have the ability to put someone on the front page giving them exposure. Later whales can upvote and follow but right now they need to be constantly on the move so the minnows and dolphins don't become complacent constantly voting on the same people trying to make money and that's it.

Steemit needs to be artificially driven until the users can organically take over.

I helped with the mute function, I filed an issue on github, it now works better. It still has some bugs, by the way, occasionally I still see greyed out posts, but amusingly enough, these people are now not trolling like I saw them doing before, and I unmute them. But when I see a troll now, I can hit the mute button and poof gone.

I am willing to bet that some of these ideas you have hinted at that are on the agenda internally for implementation, are at least partly like the solutions I have proposed, the namespace sub-chain with member assignments, and a chat system that does not depend on a central server. The former could indeed be integrated into the main chain, and the latter, integrated into the witness node code, with a separate file storage that keeps unexpired posts until they are expired, then purges them.

I think that Steem is doing well and adapting solutions quite quickly, and has such a jump on the competition, that by the time these platforms come out, Steem will be very close to RC standard or even in full release.

I will continue to work on building a python/piston based gtk3 interface, because I see no reason why this would not be appreciated, and it can be ported very easily to all platforms. This would help reduce dependency on the central server, and also assist users who have computers that are not up to the performance standards the web interface demands.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Wish we can see who muted us so we can redeem our selfies. With them.

let's do a brief intro call if you're up for it

message me on rocket chat?

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I am stuck on a low bandwidth, shaped 4G connection currently. I am always logged in at freenode on #steemit. I am by no means thriving at the moment but I have won enough through my own efforts that I can spend my time coding.

If you want to do an interview with IRC, just pop email me at [email protected] to schedule it (give me the timezone so I know when, I am in Eastern European Standard Time zone, in Bulgaria). I should be able to upgrade my internet connection next week but I am very reluctant to spend another 10 euros on another 10Gb for my internet connection, this is expensive compared to what I can get wired into my room here.

Otherwise, you can follow me, check my hashtags at #ascensionteam and #steemportal where I post articles related to these subjects.

Thankyou for your interest :)

edit I am terrible at names and I didn't realise. You are one of the developers?

He is one of the Steemit F O U N D E R S !!!

He is the CEO of steemit

I just looked a bit closer at my prepaid 4G service and discovered I can get a 5Gb block at the same price as the 10Gb so I am back up and running.

I am now puzzling over how to find @xeroc's piston.web code, realising that he has already built most of the glue between piston and an interface, and this would cut out a lot of work for me, letting me focus on a frontend, and @leprechaun wants to build a wxwidgets frontend as well, but now I don't know where to find piston.web. halp!

I am writing a wx widgets editor that will post to the block chain. Maybe we should join forces.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

In python, right?

It would make a lot of sense - we could share code. Bundle it into the same project, and separate the parts, build a generalised interface glue (with a global variable set by each independent main script) and the common classes we can both work on. Or something like that. Where is your git repo?

I am building up the base framework for multiple frontends. I won't be building wxwidgets or qt frontends, I am just going to put stubs in there that others can add to the master branch.

The git is here:

https://github.com/l0k1-smirenski/steemportal

I should have the beginnings of the interface glue started pretty soon. Please do, if you want to, make branches, and then as they develop, they can be merged into the master branch and the app will become more frontend-agnostic, what gets implemented on the front end will be up to people coming in and building them. I realise also that a web frontend could be integrated into this structure, but since #xeroc is building piston.web (which I can't find the code for now) I will leave that alone, but you can see in the code structure how it could be linked together.

Mute button will not effectively sever the tie between a sociopath and a user. It's a good feature some instances, but doesn't solve the main design issue actually. Thanks for your work for the mute button, as that is part of the solution. I am actually bringing this up now before we have something more insidious to deal with. This is a preventative post. I think most are unaware of the potential problem that could really make headline news.

I think you are exaggerating a bit with how serious it is, since the stalkers' activity is by the nature of the platform publicly visible to anyone who hasn't muted them. Finding who they are for legal proceedings is no less difficult, depending on the user's posts, than it is for the stalker to find the victim offline.

The transparency of this platform certainly of its own, introduces privacy problems, but leaves this issue to the user to manage. The transparency also hurts the power of malicious parties too, and with a working mute button, makes these people more vulnerable to being noticed and vigilantes empowered to work on defusing the threat. This is a more cooperative model, and has many other benefits but for the issue of cyberbullying and stalking, makes such activities potentially very dangerous.

Thank you for your work. Followed & upvoted.

I was on Slack when Stellabelle gave out her home phone number for all (including Earnest) to see. With that, and her real name which she did nothing to protect, the miscreants she claims she worries about would have had no problem finding her. SHE did not consider the safety of her own self.

So, let's cut the crap.

This post has much of the flavor of a spoiled egotist thwarted in her drive to power by others who have worked longer and harder than she.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Empathy is good, solutions are better. I've heard this same for a while, "working on solutions," Your content providers hesitate to speak for fear of absolute loss of any possible future earnings. Steem Power (SP) holders vote using bots is not curation. They don't read the content. So if you can get on that list, you make bucks, if not sorry. An investment of $10,000 doesn't get me any voting SP to speak of. Excellent content providers come and leave, feeling betrayed by your message. I cannot find a good reason to get a content provider to stay here, and I've tried.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I think there can be solutions for the curation issue.

One is to eliminate curation rewards altogether.

Another is to ratelimit votes, and decrease this rate as the number of votes in a period, that is, if a whale has huge voting power, the more their bots vote, the slower their voting gets, diminishing the ability of their bot to win them the voting rewards. This ratelimiting could also throw captchas in that bots can't solve, and when this happens repeatedly, some kind of report can be filed on the blockchain to indicate the user is abusing the voting system, and steadily decrease the votes per time period the more they continue to violate this.

None of that solves the true problem which is attention scarcity. So now less votes happen or there is no incentive for people to vote? The curation reward should remain and just decentralize curation. Whale power can be distributed to minnows who can vote with whale power for a couple days out of the week.

'attention scarcity'. Unfortunately that sounds like the talk of toddlers, I mean, attention has to be won with meritorious behaviour, you don't win an entitlement to it by being born. I don't mean to be so abrasive in saying this, but when the pool of attention is so big, and right at the moment, the system is completely wide open, unsegregated, unsegmented. A solution that might help with the non-monetary element of attention, is having groups. But as far as the money and vote rewards goes, the pool of available rewards is limited by the size of the sum of all members' SP.

To do things any other way makes no economic sense. This is also why this platform makes such a strong appeal to anarcho-capitalists, who unlike these modern liberals or the anarcho-socialist types, believe that society should be regulated by economics and logic, and not the illogical and economically ignorant idea that anyone acquires a share of a scarce resource without doing the work that gets people to pay. Besides the injustice of it, the rewards spread so thin that the incentive towards meritorious behaviour is lost.

One is to eliminate curation rewards altogether.

That doesn't make any sense. How would rewards be tabulated?

Empathy is good, solutions are better.

I agree, what's yours?

As I already said I think posts need to be broadcasted anonymously to the world with absolutely zero details about them, number of votes, dollar amount and author should be hidden from the public and only visible to the author. Only then people will actually upvote the content. Curators don't need any other info but content, everything else is a distraction and have a negative influence.
Once the voting system is unbiased it allows for a fair distribution which means more diversified. Currently what is happening is basically whales creating a second generation of whales. It's like you have the 300 biggest whales giving all their vote to the other 300 whales that will soon be bigger than themselves, whales needs to stop voting for the same stuff everyday. The solution is encrypt author and post details . ( they can be available a few hours before payout for example but should not influence during voting process)

As soon as reputation went in the votes to low reps disappeared.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

As I already said I think posts need to be broadcasted anonymously to the world with absolutely zero details about them, number of votes, dollar amount and author should be hidden from the public and only visible to the author.

How do you do that on a blockchain? What about transparency?

Curators don't need any other info but content, everything else is a distraction and have a negative influence.

That's false. From an economic perspective, curators should upvote if they value the post more than its predicted payout (and should downvote otherwise, assuming we didn't have downvotes/flagging tied together). Everything else is just irrational behavior and human bias noise.

Edit: Just for clarity, I'll add that these would be equivalent if content visibility were the same for all blogs, but it just can't be if its ranked in any way. And it needs to be ranked.

It's like you have the 300 biggest whales giving all their vote to the other 300 whales that will soon be bigger than themselves

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing... inactive whales get a lower share, wealth gets redistributed.

whales needs to stop voting for the same stuff everyday

It's really just a visibility problem combined with low bot competition. As competition grows, bots will become smarter and there will be more author diversity.

Wealth distribution, visibility and content quality are all major problems that will most likely all get sorted out over time. I think the only issue is that it might be too slow of a process for us to scale effectively and make this less of a gambling site and more content quality based. There are some ways we can make this faster, I don't see "encrypting" information as being helpful (quite the contrary actually) or even implementable.

I hope my answers/comments were clear enough, if not I invite you to come discuss those on rocket.chat. I'm quite surprised by the amount of support your comment received so I hope I didn't misinterpret your views.

I can offer a brief point about the economics of Synereo. Synereo lets the user have ultimate control, as there is no company such as Steemit who can control certain aspects. It's an attention economy in the pure sense where users can determine for example via social/smart contract: "In order to reach my attention with your communications, you must pay me in arbitrary number of amps". It means amps will definitely have value if people value the attention of valuable people, and because as we know on Steemit how scarce attention is, the economic for Synereo make a lot of sense.

Advertisers would have to buy amps which immediately creates a market for amps. Steemit wants people to buy Steem Power which function similar to amps but amps are much more flexible in how they can be used while Steem Power is sort of fixed in it's place to be used how it's being used and while you can expand the uses of it, it's not as generalized as amps. There is probably more to be said and I'm not an economist, but I do know Dan Larimer has known about Synereo for a long time and the whole attention economy amp model as well, and for his own reasons he decided on the Steem model.

I think because there are some advantages to the Steem model. It's easier to understand Steem. Synereo is way more radical, where nobody really understands the full potential of it, but at this time people fashion it as a Facebook killer. It has potential to be far bigger than Facebook if it can capture users, but because it's so hard to make sense of, and because the interface so far is not intuitive, it's not a guarantee it will be anything.

Core points

The Synereo attention economy treats the human mind as a sacred resource, where attention is the most scarce resource in the human economy. Everything resolves around attention, which makes perfect sense in an information/knowledge economy, but I would guess each person will have attention which has a different value as determined by reputation or something else, and some parts of it are too complicated for me to explain in a single post.

Synereo has user adjusted privacy, may be geared more toward Facebook style communication, may not be a direct competitor to Steemit unless Steemit is trying to evolve into a Facebook rather than a Reddit/Ebay killer. Integration between the two platforms might be a good idea so you can make it easy for a person to make an account on Steemit and use that to copy their profile to Synereo, or from Synereo copy their profile onto Steemit, all blog posts included.

exactly.

exactly: " by Steemit and from what I can see didn't take attention scarcity into account which explains the issue with curation."

Agreed that for the moment Steem is a firehose, one-size-fits-all.

It doesn't necessarily follow that Synereo has a better solution for maximizing the relevance of attention. I encourage you to read this and this.

Synereo lets the user have ultimate control, as there is no company such as Steemit who can control certain aspects.

False on ultimate control. We can't publish anything, even encrypted, to a group of followers and be guaranteed to remain in control of the information.

We are free to use different clients on the Steem blockchain, not necessarily the Steemit UI. It is true that the Steem blockchain's license does not allow forking.

"In order to reach my attention with your communications, you must pay me in arbitrary number of amps". It means amps will definitely have value if people value the attention of valuable people, and because as we know on Steemit how scarce attention is, the economic for Synereo make a lot of sense.

The Synereo attention economy treats the human mind as a sacred resource, where attention is the most scarce resource in the human economy.

You assume that attention is valuable, but existing advertising targeting has shown attention is not valuable for advertising. I pointed this out many months ago on Bitcointalk, when I analyzed Synereo and decided it would fail.

Our attention is most valuable to ourselves, but the way to monetize this is apparently not via advertising!

That is a crucial point. What makes social networking valuable to the user, is they are in control over what is important to them that which draws them to that activity.

A deep understanding of marketing and technology is necessary to create the mass market product. I've done mass market software two or three times in my career.

Now I am going to do it again.

False on ultimate control. We can't publish anything, even encrypted, to a group of followers and be guaranteed to remain in control of the information.

Strawman. Synereo is user owned, at the level of attention based ownership. Steem is owned by miners, by Steemit and from what I can see didn't take attention scarcity into account which explains the issue with curation.

Our attention is most valuable to ourselves, but the way to monetize this is apparently not via advertising!

Human attention is the last scarce resource in digital society. We all compete for the attention of other people because we recognize how scarce that attention is. Advertisements steal attention and don't pay people anything in exchange and spam is a perfect example.

I see Synereo as more than just a product. It's a Social Computer and it runs on attention as a resource, just as there are other resources like storage, computation and bandwidth.

Strawman. Synereo is user owned

Obviously I was referring to control over what happens to the content we publish.

The Synereo AMP is also a blockchain that is owned by the token holders and/or miners as is the case for Steem.

You are trying to claim that the user has more control in Synereo, but that is far from certain. We can also create different clients to interact with the Steem blockchain. There is no reason one couldn't build a client model that mimicked Synereo's cascade model of content push/pulling, and only put some of the content on the Steem blockchain.

Since you are promulgating vaporware, we can speculate that anything is possible in the future on either system.

Human attention is the last scarce resource in digital society. We all compete for the attention of other people because we recognize how scarce that attention is. Advertisements steal attention and don't pay people anything in exchange and spam is a perfect example.

I see Synereo as more than just a product. It's a Social Computer and it runs on attention as a resource, just as there are other resources like storage, computation and bandwidth.

You've drunk the Koolaid. You'd be kicked out of the venture capitalist's office if that was your explanation of a business model.

You've yet to tell me how you can monetize this nebulous resource you name 'attention'. Or tell me how attention as a resource will translate into a popular activity.

exactly: " by Steemit and from what I can see didn't take attention scarcity into account which explains the issue with curation."

We are free to use different clients on the Steem blockchain, not necessarily the Steemit UI. It is true that the Steem blockchain's license does not allow forking.

Read the licence. I did because I built a witness node. It trademarks the names only.

I mean we aren't allowed by the license fork the Steem blockchain's code.

When kings rule the land and their subjects are busy kissing their feet, both king and subject lose their night vision. Kings who've never lived inside the dragon's mouth can never truly lead the masses who are limping, feverish and bed-ridden.
Attachment based on personal gain has blinded more people than the sun. Follow the sun for it gives energy without expecting a return on its investment.
I have provided the solutions as far as invitation protocols. It is up to the community to decide which design serves their needs the best. Actually, the free market will decide best, and that will happen in the future regardless of my personal opinions.
I am a very patient person, but I do have my limits when months go by without any sort of forward action.
If we cannot speak our minds without fear of flagged whale downvotes, then the platform will implode.

Right on. I hate to say it, but in this, @dantheman is wrong. Downvotes damage the Steemosphere, not benefit it. Shunning is far more powerful than punishment as a social regulation mechanism. I got smacked down by @berniesanders and since I - yes, little minnow me - got the Mute button to actually work, I don't even see his comments anymore, and my screen is now far more productive.

He may have taken my rep down to 10 with him and his gaggle of followers, but ironically, about 30 of them now follow me. Thank God that this behaviour can't diminish your SP. I didn't have much, but I have in the week and a half since this malicious nonsense, I have returned to above the rep score before his 'justice' was dealt, and my SP is now, on the back of only my effort to post good material, already at nearly 2000% of what it was when this brave whale 'set me straight'.

out of curiosity, what post did berniesanders downvote?

You can find it for yourself if you search the blockchain. I called him out for being petty and vindictive in a comment thread. Turned out he was the whale who had voted up what I considered to be a random, insignificant post in my blog, near the beginning. He withdrew his vote, and I was indignant, and it hurt a lot because he did this 2 hours before payout time.. If he had been any kind of decent human being, and not precisely the sad individual that he is, he would have simply ignored me. But instead he acted as petty as I had just literally stated he was behaving.

This started a futile flag campaign on my part, and he flagged me back some more. My reputation fell to 10, but of course, he coud not steal my SP, as pissingly small as it was, I think maybe 6 or so at the time.

In fact, I am very motivated by the desire to eliminate the pernicious influence of such individuals, who not only buy in big on the platform, but think that qualifies them as some kind of curation expert. This is patently wrong, because curators have to be creative people, and certainly not petty and vindictive, small minded bot-operators, using this platform to stroke their wounded little egos. This is teething problems for the platform, in fact. Steemit is labeled 'beta' for a reason - the developers realise that intricate, and compelling mathematical models, have to be tested before they can be considered effective. Either that, or backtested on historical data, which cannot be done for this platform.

I gradually recovered. I wrote another article that won a lot of votes, about my philosophical consolidation after the experience, and from there, I slowly built my reputation up, and wouldn't you know it, because of my efforts to put forward good ideas, I have now caught the attention of the developers, who have already (but subsequent to my posting the ideas) announced they are working on ways to resolve the issues you discuss in this post, and the solutions to which, I have already extensively and comprehensively resolved in my posts, indeed, I didn't just moan with my big SP to much attention the injustice of my own treatment and the behaviour of the individual I called out, that caused this to all start, I picked myself back up, knowing I was right, and continued to publish. I am even now writing code towards this end, and I have acquired the cooperation of who I consider to be the most talented individual developer who is also working towards improving this platform, independently, without begging to some higher power. @xeroc.

I perhaps should be more concerned about hurting egos, but as far as I am concerned, this is precisely contrary to achieving success when you are taking part in a social experiment. The right model has to be found, in sufficient intricacy, that there is no glaring open holes for abusive behaviour to get through the net created by the mechanics of the system.

As I observed in a recent post, I am now even getting so many little vote rewards that any campaign to stop my progress at advancing this platform, would be patently abusive and very bad for the reputations of anyone who has been 'hurt' by my comments. I am building a strong following and I am following through with my ideas and the more I learn in the process, the better my ideas get, and the more precise and effective become my actions.

To give context to this situation, Dan responded to you personally, even offering that we would look into the identity of the offender and disclose that information law permitting, and the entire message thread considered, it appears your quotes are taken out of context.

That's not the way to do it!
You must find solutions that benefits everyone in the platform and not just individuals that after all will not be grateful in the end as it turns out !

Yep there's no doubt about it. We have some good plans for blockchain-based identity I'm looking forward to sharing.

I don't think privacy and security are an issue. I think some people lack the full understanding of block chains and why they work as they do. Transparency is key to the longevity of the platform. Unless steemit starts giving out the info of the Facebook or Google + accounts used to sign up or that information is breached, all we are is a username. I personally would have never given steemit or the steem platform the time of day if things weren't transparent. I want to be able to find out if people are voting up/down posts maliciously. I want to be able to see a clear history of someones stances on topics via their previous posts, comments, and replies. The only thing keeping steemit from becoming the next Facebook or Reddit and manipulating posts and information at will is that it is a public ledger and can be audited by any user at any time. I see plenty of posts with people FUDing the price of steem. It's annoying and not productive, but when they accuse steemit (the account) of manipulating the internal market it gets slanderous. Dan cleared it up quickly, but if people took the time to learn about the platforms and technology they were getting involved in before criticizing things they don't understand, they could have just made the right decision for them and either not gotten involved or educated themselves on these issues before posting. Keep up the good work and don't fret over some users lack of understanding on this topic. I am actually glad I waited to get involved with steem until I took the time to fully understand the dynamics of the vision so that I am not one of the very vocal minority of users that like to spam FUD posts and up vote them to make it look like most of the platform is upset about the price and thinks it's all a big ponzi, which it clearly isn't , no ponzi would ever give people money to start making money. It's pretty sad that you guys are actually trying to help give people options and show them another way of life and they try to shit on you while making money off the platform. Screw that.

Yet we still have gatekeepers known as whales.

The author is not in control of his performance with his readers. This is fundamental error in the design. FUNDAMENTAL! It violates the entire ideological point that authors want to eliminate the gatekeepers.

It is not like the author is getting any other benefit, such as the music author who may be satisfied with the distribution even if not paid.

After watching the video linked, it looks like Synereo is working on a 'tipping' system of rewards. Synereo will definitely have its own problems to face after the launch. I think Synereo is a great concept though and for that reason it could serve as some healthy competition. I would be interested to see where it goes. Their filtering function looks really user friendly for example. I can't wait to see some filtering features here as personally I think that's what we need most to retain our active userbase.

Tipping systems have already been tried in a number of places, and have not lived up to the hype. Stake-weighted voting systems clearly work, as overall, even given the incentive to run vote bots for curation rewards, the quality of what rises to the top is still very good. I also think that over time the equation changes as quality creators maintain their vesting in order to improve both their own rewards as well as to participate more effectively in curation.

I agree. I can't see how you could incentivise users to continue "amplifying" quality posts if only the first few people who leave a tip will gain rewards. The most it costs steemit users is a vote. And unless you are trying to gain curation rewards there is no reason to be stingy with your vote. Since they've been working on Synerio for some time though, I would be very interested to see how they address this. The attention economy is a fascinating concept.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

If attention economy does not also weight on stake then it will spread rewards so thin that the benefit of economisation does not exist. Here on on Steem, it is precisely by linking stake and voting power that anyone can even win a big reward at all. This is a simple economic equation that only someone who does not understand economics would think equal vote power is viable.

Actually, I need to correct myself a little. If the 'attention economy' concept works like it does in a democracy, it will grant power to the most manipulative, lowest-common-denominator addressing tricksters. The way that stakes controlling vote power works is that if you have, say, 10% of the share of stake, and your actions cost 1% of the total pool in net losses, you lose 0.1%, whereas the swarms of minnows with only 0.001%, only lose 0.00001%.

Translate that into $100mln total cap. The big stakeholder loses $100,000 from $10mln, the little stakeholders lose $1 from their $100. In proportion, the loss is equal, but I think it is easy to see that the incentive to be good weighs heavier on the bigger stakeholder. For investors, 1% loss is not trivial. For little players, it doesn't hurt nearly so much, especially in a system like this where you can get that little stake from a few weeks of hard work.

No one was interested but this is a decentralized way to let someone a build a content feed now. I don't know how to do it or I would.https://steemit.com/steem-ideas/@dennygalindo/help-me-build-a-topic-feed

I agree, the biggest weakness steemit currently has is the filtering and following limitations. That being said, this is in no way a finished platform and it's only a single part of the steem platform and network as a whole. The devs are actively reading and responding to feedback and hopefully in the end we get an amazing platform that changes the world. If we don't, I won't be wondering what if I had kept my steem powered up (basically staking for longevity). I am not opposed to profiting off steemit by any means, but I am mainly here for the proof of concept and enjoy most of the content created by the user base. If we all continue to point out where we think steemit could be improved, I believe Ned and Dan intend to develop things in that direction. They have no incentive to not promote platform longevity and if they were going for a quick cash out they could have done so already.

I like this idea.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@l0k1/steemhordes-a-proposal-for-a-sidechain-for-groups-and-moderation

I beat you by 4 days and my concept is more practical, and lays out a route to develop it. And the devs want to talk to me about what I have been proposing. Ok, pardon my gloating. Really, it is unseemly.

In fact I have been saying since my whale-smackdown, that user-customisable filtering is the critical ingredient that will solve the biggest problems on Steem at the moment.

I really don't think its flawed as I stated above, lets say you get 500 votes and 490 are from minnows those minnows have no weight value so you wont get much in $ but if you get 50 votes and they are all with much higher weight lets say over 5,000 steem power of course your going to get more $. That is the way i see it. the weight of the vote is what matters. not how many votes.

Why should it be that way other than to benefit the founders and whales? It sure means that only the chosen can actually curate.

Hi @ned

Regarding @stellabelle's first issue, I am not 100% sure what she is looking to have fixed. Is it that she doesn't want someone who is harassing her to be able to contact her at all via Steemit? Assuming this is it, would it be possible to implement a "block" feature, which would prevent a user from being able to comment or reply to anything you post? That would go a long ways in preventing the type of harassment I think she is describing. The harassing person could still create a new account, but that gets into an area where there is not much that can be done on an anonymous public form like Steemit. She could at least keep blocking new accounts any time they came up.

Also, you mentioned "turning Steemit from a blockchain-site into a thriving and personalized social media site". I am really excited to see what you all have in the works! :) If you have a minute to check it out, I have been working on a project similar to your FAQ initiative, except on the UI development side. I assembled a list of most of the 'popular' features that the community has been asking for. Would it be of value for me to continue working on this, or do you all already have what you need as far as this goes? (post here)

Block could be a great feature. Nice point.

Thanks 😀

Well you finally got wind of my block suggestion, but hope you realize some features are impossible in a decentralized system.

Instead of being able to block specific users from posting a comment that references a blog post (which I think alternative clients would find a way to subvert anyway, by embedding data, i.e. bottom-up supply & demand will drive features not top-down desires), the correct way to design such a feature is probably to allow the blog author to mark specific comments and/or usernames, which clients can optionally agree to hide. Again all power must remain with the individual users and no blog author should (nor in theory can!) be able to block a user from posting a comment.

mute already does this.

mute already does this.

No it doesn't give the blog author the power to recommend to readers a blocklist for his/her blog posts.

The solution is clearly outlined in the Synereo model with invitation protocols. I speak for many besides myself and I clearly pointed out the Steemit design flaw. As far as redesigning Steemit, I think if Steemit doesn't adopt an invitation protocol of some sort, its user base will decline. A re-thinking of Steemit's structure is what I am suggesting. The free market will point to most desirable direction, though. I am pointing out a superior design that is attractive to users. If users' needs are not met, they will look for alternatives. In time, we will understand better which system is desirable.

So you want it so that instead of being a public forum where any user can read and comment on anything, you only interact with people you have 'let in'? That would be a very different type of platform than what we have today. I don't know if the majority of Steemians would even want that. Personally, I like the way it is setup, where you can interact with whoever you want.

There is no way to prevent users from posting comments about anything to the block chain. Even if we establish a protocol to do that, developers can find ways to embed data and subvert it.

Synereo perhaps attempts to restrict data distribution to coteries by not putting all the data on a globally accessible blockchain. But even then, we can't control what others in our coteries choose to do with the data we've shared with them, i.e. they can distribute it outside our coterie. The only plausible way to prevent people from talking about you on a social network is to create obscure identities. Once you are a public figure, then people will talk about you and there is nothing you can do to stop this. We can have a feature in which a blog author offers a recommended block list, but each reader's client program will be free to ignore it.

For those users who are not widely known, then I guess Synereo's local storage of data has the advantage that not all data can be easily found by anyone on a global blockchain. So individual privacy may be improved (at least if not w.r.t. to the NSA).

However it has the disadvantage that new readers can't just discover and browse. I've read that Medium has 20,000 weekly active bloggers serving 25 million readers.

We can simulate Synereo's private coteries on a public global blockchain by employing broadcast encryption.

*to some users. I love that Steemit offers complete transparency. If this was just another social media platform where you could block everyone you disagreed with or anyone who offended and hurt your feelings, well... then I'd go back to Facebook.

But you can mute anyone you don't like. It even actually hides there posts, most of the time now. These features will be refined. I am building a python based native app, currently, and it will have block features, I have some ideas about toting up upvotes to determine a secondary ranking for other users that will work as a 'most trusted' filter/sort order, and I will build a simple blockchain for making groups.

I have also proposed a groups name blockchain system, though, since I have already shared this with the Devs, they may add it to the system core, yet. I also have a design for decentralising a chat system, that works like a lower latency version of Bitmessage, so there is no central server, and nodes pass messages around, and delete them after they expire, some reasonable amount of time like a day or so.

Social features are coming. The rocketchat here, it was put in because it is a feature that is needed, but getting it properly integrating, first the core has to be perfected.

This is also, why I say, and will continue to say, Steem is a DAO. We are its shareholders, according to our SP, we have every opportunity to add whatever we want, in fact, we can even contribute changes to the Blockchain and Website code as well, and if the Devs and most senior witnesses agree, it gets integrated. The Devs aren't at all in the position of dictators, their decisions have to be ratified by the biggest shareholders as well, the Witnesses, and can to some extent be shot down by Whales. This exact decision-making process might change but it will only get better, I'm sure. Ultimately if it goes very wrong, the platform will be forked, rebranded, and the people who go there, will determine whether it succeeds or not, if the other way of running it turns out to be more effective.

But I think @ned and @dantheman are smart guys, and will keep this thing moving until it becomes fully stable and autonomous, and once it is in full release, refinements like this may still emerge later on. The simple fact is that this is like a corporate shareholder board, and this works in regular companies very well. The difference is that anyone can get a tiny share and join the discussion, and how the funds disbursed within the system are spent, or invested, is entirely the choice of the shareholders as they are allocated these resources. The real success of Steem, will be all about people realising that it's a perfect place to invest money, a great system for accounting, a marketing and communication platform, and any profitable activity can be integrated into it, to gain the benefits of a very big pool of resources, and allocated more or less depending on the opinion of the other shareholders.

Your team have good work. I know, that's hard to make system like steemit and need a lot of energy and time to realize it. I understand about stellabellae opinion, mostly I think steemit depend on existence of whale. This is one of minus valued in steemit (I think). But anyway Ned, you have great idea with making steemit. Sorry if there are many bad grammar and vocabulary, I am not native speaker. Nice :)

I haven't had to use Mute but I have read that it doesn't actually block the offender.. the offender can still make their presence felt to the person being harassed. Can a proper block not be implemented?

I think with my tiny first impression; if one major aim of steemit is to reduce abuse, a tangible step was already taken with the Facebook sign up form of authentication. Plus the optional method of signing up with a Reddit account that has good standing

@ned can you please add an option to hide or reveal wallet, what in the world i want to show how much i invested in this project? u putting peoples life in to risk, no long ago a person was forced to give 15k worth of btc selling them in local bitcoins, big sp holders are targets already, please consider to add reveal or hide wallet option.

  1. Sorry to hear about your experience! You are a core part of the community here. re: Problem #1, it's difficult because this is a public platform like Twitter/Medium instead of closed like Facebook. There are pros/cons to both. An open platform like this is censorship resistant and public and gives you exposure to everyone. A closed platform is private for your own smaller circle of friends. For an open platform, muting/blocking seem to be the best way to minimize harassment other than using external means. (ie. law enforcement or private security). Also no matter what happens on Steemit, anyone can access the Steem blockchain unfiltered. That solves free speech and censorship, but is on the flip side of privacy. I think there is room for both. What else do you think can be done on a public platform?

  2. We have to be careful about popularity otherwise bot armies will take over. A stake-based system prevents sybils attacks and I'd be interested to know how others try to solve that. The more we move away from stake-weighted power the more the system will be vulnerable. Delegated voting should solve most of the problem. Whales who don't have time will be able to delegate power to you or others they trust to vote their stake. It may be in the works? What do you think?

Spot on regarding #2. Users need to understand that just because Y number of people vote on a post, does not mean all those votes are unique, nor should payouts be tied to that mechanism.

Thank you for explaining this in a way us non technical types can understand

In regards to #2 -- I posted this a while back about a Steemit Guild structure that I think would tie in very well to the delegated power system AND reward new users for more diverse content.

Yes guilds or specialty curators would tie in well. Generalists like @dragonslayer109 and @gavvet would as well...

@stellabelle I will give you an unbiased opinion on Synereo. Let me give you some facts. Synereo started as an ICO, and very cheap one at that, the coins they started to sell were only a small part of 800 million, however after the ICO was done they started distribution with a script, the distribution script screwed up at night when they were sleeping, and when they woke up they started two instances of the same script, and ended giving some people double Amp's, making the situation worse. To resolve this situation they immediately shut down the distribution doubled the coins they initially issued and started giving people double what they bought. What was wrong with this? nothing except that the ico was only for part of the coins and another ico was supposed to take place which did not. They doubled the coins they hold and the coins that were initially set aside for development/foundation etc. That put a lot of question marks on their method. They then abandoned the coin to dump slowly on bittrex. No news, no developments. Even the devs were surprised when Amp was listed on poloniex. I will not tell you why now, because I do not want to start fud. On that day me and some other traders purchased a large sum of amps on bittrex and dumped it on poloniex at an extremely high price. The next day one of the devs who lives in Tel Aviv and never in his life left that city showed up, he was shocked at the news of amps making it to poloniex. Of course the dumping of amps started, they no longer needed another ico to dump two billion coins. And yes in the process they created a lot of bag holders, some of which are poloniex whales. So in short before poloniex added Synereo it was virtually abandoned vaporware. And Synereo is still vaporware, alpha or not. Now we have whales on amp that want to exit, recover, or make money. But over their heads looms the fact that there is at least a billion amps left in the hands of people who abandoned the project at one point. I would certainly question the come back when poloniex listed it. I would certainly advice you to be careful and not bet on the underdog. I won't even compare Steem to Synereo. One of the devs of synereo is involved in ETH, and the initial marketing they used to sell the ICO is very sketchy. I have not looked into it recently as I do not look back on such projects, even if they do bring about a new social network as they promise, there is a lot of questions they did not bother to answer on their shady start.
Their tech stack is still unproven, and a work in progress, compared to Steem's tested and proven tech. They already have funds to come up with something good in the end, they surely did sell a lot of amps at an incredible price. I bought mine at 13k satoshi on bittrex and sold them for 90k satoshi an hour or two later on poloniex. People always say in crypto you have to DYOR, take that literally. Promo videos are not research, I take that with a grain of salt. I did upvote however, because I agree with you that we have issues in Steemit and the devs and witnesses discuss that on daily basis trying to come up with solutions. Given time they will reach a consensus that pleases everyone, because everyone is vested in Steem for the long run.

Thank you for posting this.. I would honestly encourage you to do an actual blog post on this.

You've convinced me to avoid investing in AMPs, at least in the short term. Thank you.

Blake I did a post once about milking the cow, and explained the long term plans of ethereum as I really seen it, I explained how the DAO was nothing but another way to milk the system. It was met with dislike because we are not supposed to start fud. I then edited the post and turned it a 180 degrees of singing praise of the DAO and it's creators. I could not hide the title however. That post might now make me look stupid lol, but I am glad steemit keeps the original version of a post :). All the information I posted about Synereo can be found on the thread, from the faulty start to the abandon part. That does not mean it can not be a financial success in the end for some, it all depends on who is running the show. So do not base you trading investment decesion on what I say. Let the people who support Synereo make their posts and enjoy for now. I would love to see how much a marketcap that project will get with 2 billion coins and some ethereum people involved.

Thanks for the info @joseph - I've loosely followed Synereo's development for a few months and I felt the operation was kind of dodgy. However, I'm still going to try the platform out once it's available to be tested - i think it may end up being too complicated to use based on the features I've read about, but well like what you said "time will tell" :)

Hmm, problems with early mining? Mining relaunch, slowly dumping... Not retaining new users. Sounds like Synereo has some serious problems.

We are okay though... right?

Yes we are "okay", Steemit is evolving in beta with the users, and not everyone has patience for beta. As for mining and relaunch and all that I posted the log yesterday. You do not have to take my word on Synereo, but the steemit devs made the effort to answer questions when the questions are asked. They still do so today. Look at Ned's reply to this post. I was around when Synereo launched and know more about it's history. The pump on Synereo is just that a pump. I hope the people get what they are hoping for, I do not call projects scams. That is always left to the individual. I was around for a long time to call it one way or another and still do not call it, I just question the methods. Remember I trade on coins pumps and dumps too, so my viewpoint on the project does not mean that at one point it's good to get in because the person running the show is good at it or the crowds are in hype mood, but generally when the crowd are in hype mood, you missed the entry point, only few exceptions ever happened. My motto in crypto is " Only time will tell " ...

Thanks for the info, very informative...

I try out everything first and make all my opinions based on personal experience. I will be trying out Synereo as a content creator, not as an investor, unless, it happens organically. I appreciate your information and I would also like to read a full-length post on the topic. In my post, notice i never mentioned the technology on which Synereo is based. Steem's technology is fantastic, world-class. The system works in some areas, but privacy and curation are currently the two areas that are broken. If I am unable to find a superior social network that meets all of my needs, perhaps I will build my own. People forget that no one can own me. I am independent and if a platform no longer listens to a growing group of discontent or meets our needs, then my investment, both in time and money is worthless. That is the nature of being free. The market will decide what's best. Let the free market do its magic.

You might be making some good points here but you're praising a network that didn't even LAUNCH yet!
"a level of sophistication, compassion, intricacy and intelligence that is currently lacking in the Steemit platform." ?!
Where do you even get this idea from? From a commercial they made themselves FOR themselves?

Seriously?

You praised steemit for months and now this post...Don't get me wrong, steemit has a TON of problems, and the casual indifference to bullying is one of them. We need more posts that criticize steemit, we need more ideas and a more responsive dev team. We need a LOT of things to even start it on a better path.
But it is here and it is real!
Synereo is a good idea AT MOST at this point [ if that ]

Oh, and yeah, dana-edwards is not making money here?

For real?

I have the same questions. Synereo hasn't even begun alpha, so anything "better" as an overall system is purely theoretical at this point.

And for someone who has made thousands and thousands of SD and SP - largely by praising Steemit and benefiting from other people's stories - it seems a bit odd to now throw the platform under the proverbial bus because of some misconception about decentralization and "user safety." Why the sudden change of heart in conjunction with powering down?

Yes, this platform has problems (compensating dana-edwards is apparently not one of them), but it's still in beta and it's an entirely new blockchain concept. Problems are expected and they won't be solved overnight. I don't understand most of the criticisms here. They seem misplaced.

I feel the same way about the Yours Network. They've both got some big hills to climb, Steemit being one of them. A LOT can happen in the next few months before they both go live

100%. And one of thos emight be the "true" social network and we might look back on Steemit, kindly, as a failed experiment. I have no clue nor do you, but saying a network that didn't even launched that solved something is wishful thinking...and misleading.

Constructive criticism is a good thing for Steemit. And Synereo is a legitimate alternative platform which content producers from Steemit will be on sooner or later so either work with the Synereo team or compete but they aren't going away.

Constructive criticism is a very good thing for Steemit. False and misleading headlines for a post containing misinformation about a competitor are definitely not.

exactly.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Well, if "exactly", then edit your FUD headline for this post.

I make money, some people think I make too much and some people think I make too little. Value is subjective and I accept the Casino Effect since as far as I know I'm the person who popularized the phrase. I think Steemit can embrace the gamification elements but the point is, the current Estimated Account Value for all of us is declining. We are a sinking ship and should focus on reversing this decline because in my opinion this value should be increasing.

Why doesn't anyone want to buy Steem Power?

Because Steem Power doesn't offer enough prestige? Because there isn't enough gamification elements? Because it's not marketed for people to hold Steem Power or Steem Dollars? The situation can change but it will take time to develop more uses for Steemit to most importantly keep this place fun.

I do no care either way what you make, I was just pointing out that saying that one of the most successful writers on Steemit is not "rewarded" is s symptom of Steemit's problems is flawed.
Also, I do respect your intellect, I said it again and again but I wonder if you also have a sense of humor too :)
PS: I, for one, think you invented that phrase although I think the effect is now diminished.

I think one of the reasons, a more human reason if you will is that it's difficult to buy SP as a non-crypto
FUN? I'm curious what is fun for you.

Passion and intellect. They are the fuel for a mind on fire.

I don't think we disagree here!

Not even an alpha version is out yet - and yet you say that Synereo has "already solved" problems plaguing Steemit? Talk about biting the hand that feeds!

"After two years of development and refinement, Synereo’s decentralized, open-source social network’s alpha version will become available this September."

we're all very successful..in theory :D

@stellabelle I'm shocked you would post this. Your doing so well on Steemit and your now praising Synereo.
Come on......

If the criticisms are valid, they're valid, and it doesn't matter how well Leah is doing on the platform.

What is NOT valid is Stellabelle's headline announcing that Synereo has already solved 2 problems plaguing Steemit when SYNEREO IS NOT EVEN OUT IN ALPHA YET. That is pure FUD.

I don't think Leah is trying to make anyone fearful, but I agree, Synereo hasn't solved anything yet.

Whether she is "trying" to make anyone fearful or not is irrelevant in that the headline is promoting that a so-called competitor (which does not even exist in alpha yet for brave souls to try) has "solved" problems plaguing Steem. You think that wouldn't spook potential investors? That's why her post is FUD.

All criticism is valid but this is like Trump bitching about the real estate market, or dana white bitching about how the martial arts industry is unfair, or peter lynch bitching about how the investing game is mean, it doesn't make sense. At least thats how i'm seeing it.

Hi @will-zewe. I'm not sure about that. I think you might say, it's like Trump calling the police to protect his properties, and praising them many times... Then getting mad when someone is threatening his family, and the police do nothing.

Nothing is wrong with praising an alternative platform for content producers. She's a content producer and Synereo exists, deal with it.

It's very possible she could be very popular on Synereo also, and why is that a bad thing? Steemit will evolve to either compete with or integrate with Synereo.

Motioned, it's the free market after all.


Synereo sounds like a social media platform designed around the idea of "safe spaces". You build a private house of your own confirmation bias and only accept those you approve of into your safe space. We wouldn't want to open ourselves up to just anyone right? They might say something hurtful, maybe even give us a reality check:

As for "getting doxed", that happens to basically anyone that puts quality content out on the internet. No amount of safe spacing will result in you being able to protect yourself online from the things you do on the internet. If you are embarrassed by your actions, then don't do them. The internet is a glass house, you can block yourself off into a safe space of "privacy" but the rest of us can still see you.

As for the low value of monetary rewards for certain blogs on "steemit", some of my quality posts have gotten 0 traction, but this site only has something like 16,000 active users currently. So the whales are up-voting the types of bs that draws in mainstream facebook users, so we can build the network. Once there is a few million users on steemit, the blogs that are quality content will receive a lot more monetary value because the entire system will be worth significantly more. So are the whales up-voting stuff that you like? No, guess what that means: what you like isn't bringing in new users, they are up-voting content to bring in more people. Stop whining about money you are getting for free just by posting on a site that someone else built for you. If you just keep working hard and helping to build this steemit platform, soon all the quality content producers will be making bank like Mr. T:

well said!

How do we measure that the posts being upvoted by the gatekeepers are optimally driving the masses here?

I thought the entire point was to eliminate gatekeepers.

This is easy, you can judge them by the results they are achieving. If more and more people are being drawn to the platform, then they are doing a good job of curating the content and inspiring people to create good content. If the growth stops or goes into decline they are doing a poor job. Simple.

That does not tell me it is "optimal".

I thought the entire point was to eliminate gatekeepers.

Well I think the only way to eliminate the gatekeepers is to grow the network and further distribute the steem power across a wider network, where eventually there is so many dolphins that the whales become almost irrelevant.

Steemit was designed around the money and not the people.

well of course, facebook is meant for people, steemit is meant for every one to make money, better concept.

People feed on money. Facebook is designed for a world where the government feeds everyone and Facebook simply profits. Facebook long term doesn't make a lot of sense in a capitalist world because eventually people will not have time to post content on Facebook if it's not profitable for them to do it.

So Facebook is assuming people will always have excess available resources. It might work, until a paying platform comes along and then people realize the same activity could be paying their rent.

It is advertised as such at least...

I agree @pheonike

Synereo seems very corporate and centralized to me. A few slick videos won't convince me that a platform that has yet to be released has "solved" any real problems yet. I think Steemit has a lot of things right and can continue to get better. Thanks for pointing out some ways we can improve.

I agree the product is not even done and it looks way to polished. I like the look and feel of steemit. nice and plain not so much buttons and whistles. It can only better from here on out.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I'm one of the "professional writers" you mention in your article. My specialty is business writing, or "copywriting" as it is also known. I agree completely that Steemit -- in its current iteration -- is very much like a casino. There is no logic to why some articles do well and others don't. Some of the articles I've put a lot of time and effort on have done poorly, while some that I have put very little effort on have done very well. It makes no sense.

On Steemit, everyone seems to be publishing for the elusive "whale vote," instead of writing for the masses. This isn't good.

I have the feeling that the more steemians wrote on steemit and steem and trend on the front page, the more it puts off people outside of steemit. And inevitably, the userbase will just drop off... We should be writing for the MASSES or respective niches.

@sabot, I agree that there is an obvious disconnect between quality and recognition. I see people busting to change this, bonding together as minnows, curating lost content and hidden gems, begging each other to read, to upvote quality. It's heartening but also saddening. From the article above:

the correlation between popular votes & engaging commentary and monetary rewards doesn’t currently exist on Steemit. It’s an arbritary system that inherently makes little sense.

I am even seeing a disturbing trend of articles crafted specifically to inspire a variety of angry responses. This way, the content is the comment section. Such an article is effortless to produce, if you can live with yourself, and the author can sit back and not participate, appearing to have merely expressed an opinion. Some of these trend and then people upvote them in anticipation of curation rewards. One understanding of "trolling" is that it makes provocative statements in a gleeful anticipation of the mayhem that will be caused. That trolling is regularly succeeding as "quality content" on Steemit should be extremely embarrassing.

This blogging platform was not created by bloggers, readers or curators. Medium has a dedicated staff of all of these adding immense value to its feed. This step was never done, and the results show it. I think there are attempts to do this now in Steemit, but as a whole, I don't think it's working too well. Perhaps in time, after all, it's still in Beta.

I don't think Medium will ever have a viable economics. Blogging is not a high income activity consumerate with effort required.

We still have gatekeepers known as whales.

The author is not in control of his performance with his readers. This is fundamental error in the design. FUNDAMENTAL! It violates the entire ideological point that authors want to eliminate the gatekeepers.

It is not like the author is getting any other benefit, such as the music author who may be satisfied with the distribution even if not paid.

A philosophical difference between Synereo and Steemit is similar to the difference between Android and IOS. Synereo is a lot more flexible than Steemit, but Steemit is a lot easier for people to figure out.

but Steemit is a lot easier for people to figure out.

Than Synereo perhaps, but not any other currently existing social media/blogging platform. If they come here, make pennies and can't figure out how the system works, which is what we currently see happening, they leave and go back to the non-blockchain platforms where it's easier to use, gives them more control and has more users.

In it's current state, Steemit will continue to have issues attracting that crowd away from their precious existing social media/blogging outlets. There are other ways to get tips on these other platforms and are far less "scary" than buying into a cryptocurrency on some "shady" exchange they've never heard of located in some country they've likely never been to all while reading how Bitcoin supports terrorism on their current choice of outlets. ;)

Bitcoin is hard enough to get mainstream people interested in. Trying to convince them beyond that point, buying something called STEEM, is even harder for them to process. This is why I believe Yours will likely benefit from remaining in the Bitcoin network. Whether or not it succeeds is an entirely different matter, as I outlined in the comment I linked you to above. I don't think any of these social media platforms will succeed outside of the FOMO stage in their initial states. But they will all have initial success market cap wise and will likely be a great short term investment for those who get in and get out before the inevitable bubble pops.

The decentralized platform that solves the issue of making it worthwhile for the average Joe/Jane to ditch their currently working blogging/social media site will be the one that succeeds (and yes, we all know this). Currently Steemit has not solved that problem, unless you already have an established name in the cryptocurrency or anarchist movement and are handed money on a daily basis for simply showing up to "work". But while the rest of the tens of thousands of people are working just as hard on their content, without the silver spoon, they are not likely to stick around for a few pennies for their hours of work.

Also, touching on the point @stellabelle brings up, the harassing issue is so bad here that I watched a person completely disintegrate her Steemit reputation in a matter of hours because she was so upset about the harassment women are enduring here on this platform. She was begging for a blocking option and got so upset that, she felt, no one was listening to her complaints that she literally became what she was complaining about and went on a tirade. It was sad to see someone get that upset, ruin their Steemit reputation and probable future and announce they will never come back to Steemit and will post on FB that other women should avoid Steemit.

For the Developers to continue to ignore this obvious issue that has escalated month after month, yet introduce private messaging as the next feature is very telling, as I mention above. They either cannot come up with a solution, don't think there needs to be a solution or feel that they've already created the solution. But the fact remains, a large portion of the female Steemit user base do not feel safe here and continue to get harassed by a few individuals. It seems like it would be an easy thing to take care of, but it has apparently proven to be something that is outside of the scope of the developers or something they don't feel is all that important.

That is the sentiment I took away from my lenghty exchange with the person I am talking about above and it was something that stellabelle and I had talked about when she first came here. Yet, this problem still persist while we're given features that I personally don't feel solve any problem whatsoever.

I agree with what you say and what Stellabelle says is also true. There is an element of trolls growing on here and this typically happens when the user base gets beyond a certain size. This also happened to Blab.

A lot of men started complaining that "boobs" were making too much money on Steemit, and that there were too many travel posts. Now we have anarchists making most of the money but people complain about that too. Whomever is making a lot of money on Steemit seems to catch heat and Stellabelle is the poster child.

When someone makes a lot of money and people can see it, it attracts negativity. Privacy exists to protect people from this but currently Steemit is a privacy minimized platform while Synereo is promising to be privacy oriented. Steemit could be more private.

For example, if Alice chooses, she should be able to block her posts from showing to anyone with a certain reputation. This way their interface wont show her post at all. This isn't censorship because she chooses who she wants to be able to see her posts on the Steemit website, forcing true stalkers to analyze the blockchain. The security would come from the fact that it takes a lot more effort.

Fantastic fucking idea, @dana-edwards. I have even a better idea. please email me at your earliest convenience to discuss further: [email protected]

It's a bit inconsistent to complain about stalkers and then publicly give away your email address.

Blocking your posts from readership is the antithesis of viral growth of the platform. You are being paid because you are supposed to be onboarding new users with your content.

It seems to me the only problem such stalkers can cause for your blogs is they can spam the comments. I think a feature which enables to you offer a recommended block list to your readers, is sufficient. Then your readers by default won't see the comments which you've chosen to block. But they can always see these, because demand will be such that clients will offer to display the blocked comments.

Synereo is like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly. You don't want to kill readership as that is the entire point. Medium has 20,000 weekly bloggers serving 25 million monthly readers.

"the harassing issue is so bad here that I watched a person completely disintegrate her Steemit reputation in a matter of hours because she was so upset about the harassment women are enduring here on this platform. She was begging for a blocking option and got so upset that, she felt, no one was listening to her complaints that she literally became what she was complaining about and went on a tirade. It was sad to see someone get that upset, ruin their Steemit reputation and probable future and announce they will never come back to Steemit and will post on FB that other women should avoid Steemit."

"They either cannot come up with a solution, don't think there needs to be a solution or feel that they've already created the solution. But the fact remains, a large portion of the female Steemit user base do not feel safe here and continue to get harassed by a few individuals"

The day has come when you, @tuck-fheman and I see eye to eye. I never could see it coming when I first joined Steemit as your post pissed me off. But I see that you and I are two sides of one coin: honest. That's why you and I have the highest reputation on Steemit, to this day. I call it like it is. No bullshit.
Being careful and cautious about not offending the whales and being denied their shrinking and shriveling whale teat will be the death of this platform.
What value does a group of women have anyway? Not much apparently. I was representing a group of growing discontent in the female user base. I am no longer speaking just for myself. I am glad that you spoke up about this issue that has remain ignored. Last time I checked the Alexa ranking, the female user base is dropping life flies. Many of the women I have brought in say they are just going to wait it out, and not participate.
KINGS WHO HAVE NEVER LIVED INSIDE THE MOUTH OF A DRAGON CAN NEVER TRULY LEAD THE MASSES.

In it's current state, Steemit will continue to have issues attracting that crowd away from their precious existing social media/blogging outlets. There are other ways to get tips on these other platforms and are far less "scary" than buying into a cryptocurrency on some "shady" exchange they've never heard of located in some country they've likely never been to all while reading how Bitcoin supports terrorism on their current choice of outlets. ;)

Absolutely no way Synereo will gain any traction whatsoever.

Stay tuned because I will be joining Synereo and doing real-world comparisons with these two platforms. One thing is glaringly clear with the introduction of Synereo, the centralized platforms like Facebook are definitely on their way out.

Nice! Friendly competition will allow the platform with best voting algorithm to win the best quality content creators.

Exactly.

Dig this post so much. Thank you @stellabelle for this post, I've been packing my bags all week and was simply going to "leave" Steemit. I've noticed the exact same issues you outlined here, not been hit so personally, but absolutely seen these concerns.

As an artist/poet the frustration is often sharing works that I hold very sacred and am being very vulnerable in sharing, because I want others to read and enjoy them. Many of these poems I've published or shared before in both readings and other social sites, and have received feedback to let me know they are felt deeply.

The discouraging thing as an artist is sharing something precious to you and it's sort of lost in the shuffle of junk posts. At that point it isn't even about the money, although I'd like to see that too. It's more about the fact that it's just not visible...while other posts, even some complete bogus account-related posts or plegiarized works, are well rewarded.

I feel like Steemit is more centralized then it wants to say it is. And this, among other reasons, including what you've laid out above, are why I'm closing down "shop" here on Steemit this week.

But I want to make it clear, I made this decision before reading your post, it's just good to see the same concerns and especially from the person who is the reason I came here in the first place.

In the same way you respect and regard @dana-edwards and would follow them anywhere they put content, is how I feel about your content.

And this post itself, is a great example of your second issue...472 votes and $652. Huh.

Thanks again, namaste.

John

i really disliked you @stellabelle so far. but this is a god damn great post.already invested in synereo for 5 weeks. good job

already invested in synereo for 5 weeks.

So you invested in a platform that today is just a promise and it is better than steemit. And 99% of the current "attention" Synereo is getting is just because of Steemit proving that blockchain+social network is a good mix.

Always "theory" is 'better' than practice. There is no way to show which are Synereo's weak points because they are not an actual platform yet, they are just a promise and a token.

Wouldn't it be better to wait until Synereo is a real platform and then compare both? I find it unfair to compare vaporware against software.

i am a trader,so since synereo(amp) showed promise and delivered profits yes i am invested in it.
when the platform comes that is whole different story.
as a trader,amp was one of my best bets and it paid out

@stellabelle I apologize for contacting you this way... but I hope you see my new transmission. It concerns the "crusade" from yesterday.

Limping, bed-ridden crusades only exist in the mouth of the dragon. Be clear Young Vader, for your riddles confuse me, but linking is never is jem-encrusted move.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I have flagged the post because I believe it's not benefiting steemit image and it's not fair!
It disturbs me that it tries obviously to promote a potential competitor against steemit using pros that haven't been tested out yet! They try too convince that the competitor is better before it is already out! How can someone promote so aggressively a competitor when you can't even use it ?
The only logical explanation to me would be a "secret deal" with the "competition"... Like with competitor soccer teams that make better "deals" to "star" players maybe? It smells like a "transfer contract" already happened..

PS the no.1 reason I downvoted it, is because I don't want my investment to Steem Power flow to the competition... Sorry if I am missing something with my approach!

Insightful. I smelled a rat here as well. There is no proof but...

Or she is just screaming:
"Hey I am available! Make me offers guys! I am the ultimate asset for social media projects!"

looks like of tangible point, what you said. it is my first day on here and i got a bit discouraged upon reading the above post but i will stay on here for find out what's right on my own

Stellabelle states above, the following (and I quote):

It remains to be seen whether the Synereo system outperforms Steemit since its launching its alpha phase in September

This, stella, is one of the most important and telling aspects of what is written above and why I will personally consider rereading your content before upvoting simply based on your reputation and that I have liked the posts about the modeling industry that brought you to fame here on steemit (organically, btw...unless you have a bunch of secrets you aren't telling anyone ;P ).
Synereo has been in Alpha testing which means that it has not been testing outside a test network of very few people. Saying it can be anything comparable to steem seems naive at best at this stage since there is very little (if any ) real documentation on real world, proven scalability.

the fact that the creators of Synereo have been developing and fine tuning their platform for two years would indicate that it has achieved a level of sophistication, compassion, intricacy and intelligence that is currently lacking in the Steemit platform.

Once again, I am curious to understand how you can say this and wield your reputation like this. The "fact" does not correlate with an indication that it has achieved a level of sophistication, compassion, intricacy and intelligence at all. What it does correlate with is that the devs and team members may be:
A) sitting on a large portion of the funds
B) are paid by other interests outside of Synereo--which is never good for the project
C) or working for nothing with a large amount of passion for a project that pays out little

What we can say is that steem has proven itself already to be among the fastest and most scalable blockchain based projects in the world. Indeed, it's technical capabilities at the time of my writing this surpass bitcoin and ethereum in terms of sheer scalablitity and I know of only one tech that purports to get close.
@stellabelle you risk losing your reputation by pretending to understand what you obviously do not understand. I have been doing this for years now and learning blockchain technology is not easy. In fact, it is a lifelong journey for some here (including myself) who have spent quite a bit more time than even the Synereo team have (if your statement is factual). In fact, what I can say (as a fact) is that I have known the developers of Steem now for over 3 years and all of them have been working on Steem or the technology underlying it for nearly 3 years now and have 4 projects over 1 million each, and 3 of which are above synereo's current marketcap.
All of these chains can run circles around every other project I know of in terms of scalability and speed..

Sorry for sounding a bit flustered here but I do want to set the record straight that @stellabell really did seem to come at this from the wrong angle and with information that she does not really have correct, and then kind of acted as though she did know what she was talking about.

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  ·  8 years ago (edited)

One thing to keep in mind is that Steem has been live for only a few months. It's in live Beta. Until 6 weeks ago, the payouts were unproven and uncertain. People were even MORE skeptical of what it would be. Then July 4th happened, the payouts proved out, the price went to the moon, there was a hack, there was growth in users and then the price started to fall back down, and now people are wondering if Steemit is a thing. 6 weeks. This is still nascent and to judge it without considering that is a mistake imho. It can't come out fully formed; nothing can. But right now several hundred devs are building in functionality into Steem from many different directions. So who knows what it will be. But it won't be boring.

I actually thing your involvement in shaping its evolution is crucial, specifically the issues you cited. Have you talked to @ned?

Synereo is a bit different, with goals that are a bit different. It, like Steem, will not come out of the box fully formed. I'd reserve judgment there as well. It's end game is a smart contracts platform and it has a brilliant team. Also keep in mind that while it seems like it's cheaply valued, it's actually valued at over 3x Steem right now. There are 1.6bn AMP extant, so its current valuation is very misleading. All-in-all, it's just not apples to apples with Steem.

Theoretically Synereo is the Facebook killer. Theoretically Steemit is the Reddit killer. Steemit is more like Reddit and 4chan than Facebook and this is perfectly fine, because both those sites are successfully popular. At the same time, Synereo from a theoretical design perspective is a different species, it's a true social computer while Steemit can evolve into a social computer but doesn't seem like it was designed from scratch to function as one.

@dana-edwards, how many Synereo tokens do you own?

That bizarre analogy seems to not be supported by the facts. It is just something you pulled out of your...

Just because Steem's blockchain was first demonstrated with long-form blogging doesn't mean that Steem is relegated to it. Also Reddit is not mostly about long-form blogging. And there is no logical reason to think Synereo is a Facebook killer.

Steemit is amazing in so many ways, but it definitely isn't perfect.

The harassment issue is definitely a big one - I've seen the examples that you've pointed out to me, and it's certainly shocking. The worst part is what you've mentioned about the developers - that they didn't say that a solution is coming, but just attempted to ignore the problem. That's unfortunate, and hopefully as time goes on, they will address this in more detail. There is the "mute" function on Steemit of course, though fortunately I've never had cause to use it, so I'm not sure how well it works.

The casino problem is a funny one. The system was designed like this, with the idea being that people will produce more quality content in the hopes of receiving a disproportionate reward. @bacchist has some interesting thoughts on the subject. Personally, I just accept the casino factor as par for the course - if those are the rules, then that's what I have to play by, even though sometimes it seems like some of my best posts drift away in obscurity. It does make me hustle harder to figure out ways to promote my posts, and think carefully about my headlines and title images.

I'm excited about Synereo, especially now that they finally have an alpha launch date. I bought $10 or $20 worth of AMPs in the presale... It's made me a little money. Might make me a lot in the long term.

I think the casino effect wouldn't go away - value being all subjective and even pitted against timing, placement, and state of minds. It'd be a little ridiculous to employ automated trickling as well in which a vote on a node distributes itself based on the other nodes in a network (in this case, followers). For one, I'll be checking out Synereo as well when it's out, and it'd be good news for Steemit if it ends up being a complicated machine for casual users.

Steemit is amazing in so many ways, but it definitely isn't perfect.

That is because is software already. At this stage Synereo is just vaporware and for that reason it sounds like "perfect". Wait until they launch a platform for real and then you will be able to compare 2 real platforms.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Whoa, settle down buddy. You're talking to me as if I was saying Synereo was better than your mama's cooking. I've been following Synereo for years, but before they announced the alpha, I was starting to think it would never come out.

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Synereo, Yours and Akasha will all be interesting to watch (and play with) in the coming months. I've been looking into Yours a little more lately and cannot deny the network effect it will have going in and likely sustaining power due to being built around Bitcoin.

That's the one thing that will likely hold back any other platform, the fact that they are attempting to build up a new economy and community from scratch. And I think that's what we're currently seeing happen here on Steemit. Once the FOMO dies down, reality sinks in and the sustainability comes into question.

I think Steemit had/has a chance at future success, but the initial distribution remains the biggest issue and was something I complained about before setting foot on Steemit. After pushing those issues I had with the platform aside I dove in and had some fun for a few months, but the issue only came back to haunt us all months later. There are simply too few people with an ability to "tip" others for their work due to a reluctance to "buy in" to an entirely new economy.

This becomes even more of a glaring issue when those who did choose to buy in during the FOMO phase have now watched STEEM lose nearly 75% of it's value in a short period of time. With low volume and bad press from community participants and outsiders abound it's not likely to improve, even with the reported additional features on the way.

Private messaging is not going to help Steemit at this point. We can all send PM's in chat and yet that apparently will be the next feature added according to a recent article, which IMHO shows how out of touch the Developers are with their user base or shows that they simply have no answer on how to fix what's currently broken with their model.

Great article @stellabelle! We need more high profile people speaking up about the issues here on Steemit, because these issues appear to be overlooked or ignored completely at times. I'm not sure if there's time to turn things around or not. Despite the signup numbers, I can literally hear the sucking sound from the number of people leaving and the number of accounts that haven't posted in 3-4 weeks growing.

With all of these other platforms on the way and having had time to see what Steemit got wrong, they should be able to fix those mistakes prior to release and capitalize on that in their marketing. I'm certain all of those networks will benefit initially from Steemits failure's on several fronts, simply by promoting any aspect of their platform that's different from something Steemit got wrong.

Thanks for the h/t! :)

I think both Yours and Akasha aren't very good designs and are futile attempts. I only mention Synereo and not those others because it's specifically the main opportunity or threat to Steemit in terms of what it can do.

Akasha is futile because Ethereum isn't going to be able to scale to Reddit or Facebook transaction speeds and even if it can, I don't see how Akasha which will be a smart contract, would be secure, or fast.

Yours? Isn't that built on Bitcoin? I wouldn't worry too much about that. Synereo on the other hand is built on a foundation which has the potential to be both secure and fast. It's not going to have the sort of smart contract bugs of Ethereum with The DAO, because it uses a functional programming paradigm, with formal verification, and very well correct by construction methodology. It's also something which can scale because by design anyone can host a node, the users can sell resources to the network, and it's composable.

But none of it means anything unless people can understand Synereo enough to want to use it.

Akasha is futile because Ethereum isn't going to be able to scale to Reddit or Facebook transaction speeds

Ditto Newbium.

I wrote a critique of Yours.network on July 29:

https://www.yours.network/

They take a different approach, which is that as a curator you invest in content by tipping it, then you a portion of get downstream curators' tips. Therefor, they don't need their own token to debase (instead they use Bitcoin), as they are assuming people will want to pay their own individual money in order to invest in making money from curating.

The problem I see with this model is that it requires too much cognitive load on the user who just wants to use the site. The higher the cognitive load, the lower the adoption rate. So sorry, I am thinking this idea will fail.

I think both Yours and Akasha aren't very good designs and are futile attempts.

The thing is, does it matter? What matters is IMHO is how many people are going to be using those two platforms. I feel Yours will have a big advantage in that department versus Steemit, Synereo and Akasha (which I believe will have the 2nd biggest supportive community/developers behind Yours). Whether or not they do anything better than Steemit is a moot point. They don't have to.

They all will have their own core believers that will stay, just like Steemit has, no matter what they do. But going in, both Yours and Akasha will have big communities and lots of developers ready to post and help build apps. They will all also, at least in the beginning, bring in a portion of the upset Steemit user base as well as those who simply want to maximize their visibility on multiple platforms.

I don't' believe Akasha will last for the reasons Dan has brought up previously. I don't know enough about Synereo, outside of I rejected it upon initial research long ago. I haven't followed it's progress though, perhaps things have changed for the better, but I will likely still give it a shot, to maximize my contents exposure. Any content creator would be doing themselves a disservice by not posting on these other platforms and it's likely that any investors would be doing themselves a disservice by not getting in before the initial FOMO pump & dump. ;)

Ultimately though, I think Yours will succeed simply because of the existing largest cryptocurrency community and developers ready to support it. I like Steem and hope the best for it, but it has some serious issues that remain unresolved with no real answers to those problems at this point as well as serious public relations issues not only with it's own user base, but the remainder of the cryptocurrency world.

And that's not factoring in the non-cryptocurrency community looking for a better social media experience. I feel most of them are going to go with whatever is easiest and Yours will likely be that choice because there are more people to recommend Yours in the Bitcoin community to their non-crypto friends and it cuts out the middleman when getting into crypto.

I simply want a decentralized social media platform and I'm not going to stick with just one. I started with Qora and watched it fall apart (but is being rejuvenated again) and now I'm trying out Steemit, as I will all of the others. The more choices for content creators the better I say. Competition among these decentralized blockchain platforms is silly. They all are competing against the censorship and control of governments/corporations and we as a group should support them all.

To anyone questioning stellabelle ...

Attacking stellabelle or anyone else for simply wanting to try out another solution that may be more beneficial to them in one way or another is detrimental to the overall goal of supporting any and all platforms that are providing a way for the masses to ditch Facebook/Reddit/Twitter and any other social media outlet that censors and controls content.

There is a much larger goal here that needs to be focused on instead of starting a competition between this or that decentralized platform. We need to support them ALL. And by doing so, they will all get better with time and more of the non-crypto masses will eventually join one or the other or all to try them out.

What matters is IMHO is how many people are going to be using those two platforms. I feel Yours will have a big advantage in that department versus Steemit, Synereo and Akasha (which I believe will have the 2nd biggest supportive community/developers behind Yours). Whether or not they do anything better than Steemit is a moot point. They don't have to.

Yours will likely be that choice because there are more people to recommend Yours in the Bitcoin community to their non-crypto friends and it cuts out the middleman when getting into crypto.

If you are projecting success based on the size of the cyrptocurrency community (and one degree of relations from them) that can be brought into a social network, then you are focused on failure.

Success is bringing in millions of users from outside of crypto-currency due to viral spread. Meaning that people outside of crypto should be bringing in people from outside of crypto. For that we need the correct design.

Akasha is futile because Ethereum isn't going to be able to scale to Reddit or Facebook transaction speeds

When they transform to POS (casper I think) they could catch the desired speeds.No?

Wow!
This is a very bold and brave post. I see there are SO many comments I am a bit reluctant to write to much as it may bot even be seen.
I do however want to acknowledge that this is a controversial post that regardless of if everyone agrees on everything these are indeed aspects of Steemit that MUST be looked at and must be improved.
So thanks for that as there is OBVIOUSLY a lot of m this post! and exposure happening from this post.
With that being said this platform is still very new and has made a lot of progress so far and had pretty good success. I still have high hopes for this platform and still thinks its the best currently available. I also feel that if we all keep expressing our truth, discussing the important aspects and creating good content this community will continue to improve for most involved.
With that being said I hope that Synereo is even better as at a minimum it will force Steemit to improve if not provide a more enjoyable alternative. Yet its not even working yet so its tough to really say that its actually better.
I hope this post and other posts inspire this community to a more awesome standard that we all benefit from!
Best Regards~*~

You don't understand that Steem is not like a drug dealer's basement. It is a giant corporate boardroom, with no restrictions on who can get a stake in the company and join the party. To some extent, I agree, there is some problems here, but it is an interface issue, not fundamental to the blockchain system.

I am working on a project to build a better interface, and I am looking out for people to join the process, you can find my posts on the hashtag #steemportal. First I am building a read-only interface, and then one of the first features I will add, is a proper, functional block function. After you can do everything, post, edit, vote, move funds around, buy and sell, the next thing I am doing is developing my SteemHordes system.

This might sound 'scary' but it's just a group management system, based on a namecoin style blockchain with name registration and membership lists administrated by name owners. With this, you will be able to organise groups, and communicate with them and manage membership, which will allow administrators to act as moderators to the group.

After that I will be working on a bitmessage-like instant messaging system, that really works a bit like a blockchain with expiration dates on blocks, after which they disappear. This will then have encryption added.

Synereo is a couple of months before its' public beta, and based on the timeline so far with Steem, it could be another 5-8 months before it's fully bug-free. I'm just working with what we have, and maybe I will also move on from it down the track, but I like the minimalistic approach of Steem and maybe even if it gets generally abandoned, the modified form including my proposed features, will be forked off the original. And no, if I do that, I won't claim arbitrary CEO status (biggest share of SP). I want to in fact by this point, have established a group in the Hordes who are in charge of development, and this will enable idiots who put dumb things into the core of the system to be booted out if people organise to do this, and this will be possible. Sure, it will have a new name if it comes down to having to fork.

Brilliant! I really like your innovation and hope to see what you can come up with and go about fixing any issues that people may pose.

September is when Synereo's alpha version is released, according to their website

wow, ok, so there is still time for Steem devs to snap out of it. Alpha means not for general use like a beta phase. So the fat lady isn't singing just quite yet. But there's no guarantees that there won't be an implosion and a hardfork either.

I'll start keeping an eye on what Synereo is doing. I encountered some of the problems you list early in my time here, so I am entirely sympathetic to your views. On the other hand, I think there is enough here and proven, that only small changes have to be made to fix all of the problems, and the Steem system has built in incentives that can enable these changes to happen without big external input.

I think it could be pretty cool, actually, if the current caretakers of Steem continue to fail to make the right decisions, that the community can take control and use Steem itself to facilitate the management of development. I think it's fair to say that this centralised system of management on top of what is otherwise an open system, is not helping. To make this fully participatory and stake-based, would be a great thing, and in the long run, I see this where this blockchain based social network concept naturally must head.

synero is nothing but hot air at this point. so far, they solved nothing in reality

I just posted a comment on a blog page. It let me. I have an acct there.
https://blog.synereo.com/2016/08/16/the-synereo-cartoon-contest/#comment-40

Lea,

thank you for this. I've been trying to understand AMP and REO and your post was helpful, the white paper was not so much.

I have also written about what i think some of the shortcomings of steem are imho and voiced some of the challenges I see: https://steemit.com/steem/@knircky/i-love-steem-the-price-is-starting-to-hurt-one-last-bullet

I do agree that there are issues, however steem to me is still better than anything else i am aware of.

Of course synero could be even better, since steem is clearly not perfect.

The fact that there is the luck factor that is part of steem is not automatically bad, but i agree with you the effect is too high at the moment.

change the title of this post in:
how to destroy your reputation for being greedy

Posts like this should be saved for when Synero actaully launches.

You could make theoretical arguments all day about why a service that doesn't exist is better. At the end of the day, those arguments don't mean anything until the service actually exists.

Posts like this should be saved

Blockchain remembers all.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

yes. i mean that publishing them should be saved though -- theoretical arguments against certain implementations aren't productive (especially disappointed to see it from people who've got a big following like @stellabelle). ship or shut up until its shipped.

by the way, are you the same smooth that's listed as a core dev for Monero? https://steemit.com/protocols/@ntomaino/an-overview-of-monero-the-privacy-focused-bitcoin-alternative-that-is-up-100-in-the-past-24-hrs-and-just-overtook-steem-ethereum

If so, how much time do you spend on Steem compared to time spent on Monero?

  1. steemit.com is an implementation of the capabilities of the steem blockchain. It is NOT the end all be all of steem.
  2. You can take either the steemit repo or one of the code bases and make what you want to see.
  3. There's no way to say Synereo is the solution when it hasn't even launched.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

The whales concept in Steemit is a bit ridiculous. If you make a post that gets upvoted by 1 whale, you earn more than a post upvoted by 1000 minnows. People will be fast to switch to synereo.

I also noticed that the whales upvote their friends and girlfriends. That's not really something that people are waiting for. But anyway ... I already warned them many times for this. Looks like they will learn it the hard way. Or steemit whales leaves their communist traits and adhere to the true free market principles, or other social platforms will make steemit obsolete.

I might sound a bit like a dick, but this is the truth. I am grateful for what steemit gave me. I made some nice money here that I am using now to make even more money trading. So all my thanks to steemit. But the whole whales concept is just 1 big mess. You can't give a few people so much control and expect all other people to be OK with that.

We still have gatekeepers known as whales.

The author is not in control of his performance with his readers. This is fundamental error in the design. FUNDAMENTAL! It violates the entire ideological point that authors want to eliminate the gatekeepers.

It is not like the author is getting any other benefit, such as the music author who may be satisfied with the distribution even if not paid.

Thank you for the post! I have been investing in Amp for the last few months awaiting the release of the Synereo Alpha. It is quite possible that the platforms will both do well.

I have not tested Synereo so I can't make a judgement. What I do know for sure is that I give every platform a chance and if they fail I move on.

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There is plenty of room for Steemit & Synereo, just like there is room for Facebook,Twitter and LinkedIn! It will be good for crypto if they both do good. It will be better for Steemit if Synereo does good because whenever there is a mention of AMP & Synereo there will likely be some comparison and mentions of STEEM.

I watched the videos, Synereo looks exciting. A few things about the platform seem a bit tedious on the Synereo Tech Demo Video. Managing the posts and users seemed a bit complicated for the lay user. Since I watched the video I saw how they dragged and dropped attributes, but believe me this may be too complicated for most. Also the part about amplifying an article, you mean you have to actually pay your hard earned amps to amplify something so everyone else gets the amps, seems like there may be a groups paying for the success of others. I am sure none of this means anything, and until we can actually test out the system it is all speculation at this point. I do think the issues I pointed out are mute if Synereo works and can get people to amp up stuff. You know how bit coiners don't like to spend a satoshi, well what if ampers are the same. This is just my two steem on the subject.

Also the part about amplifying an article, you mean you have to actually pay your hard earned amps to amplify something so everyone else gets the amps

Far too much cognitive load to ever be adopted by the masses.

Can't wait for the alpha! Great post stellebelle most great content gets hidden with all the spam....

There is going to be many more new media like steemit, so I'm not interested in having to add another media to the list. I'm sticking with steemit.

I personally think its not how many upvotes you get, but what power does the upvoter hold. Its a little unfair in my point of view upvote is an upvote right? Some people end up with $2000 in just 80ish upvotes while in your case 350 upvotes gives just a ~$150. System is generally unfair why not each of the upvotes gives a worth of $1 and the more u are upvoted the more that $1 worth so the last 350th vote would not give just a $1 ,but somewhere close to $20. Then again it would be totally unfair towards whales "invested millions and still have a voting power of $1". I don't really think there is a right solution to this yet.

"why not each of the upvotes gives a worth of $1 and the more u are upvoted the more that $1 worth"

It's simple: If people made hundreds or thousands of fake IDs, it would be easy to game the system. Then someone would complain on how is it possible for all these fake votes to game the system. This type of problem is solved through the invested vote.

Very thankful for the patience of those around here who continually explain advanced game theory dynamics and sybil attack realities to those who are uninformed. I've been working hard the last month to catch up, and I greatly appreciate this effort of education.

when I saw someone responded to this, I figured it would be you @lukestokes, even before I looked at the username. That's the whole reason there is a need to sign up through facebook or redditt (I believe that is still true). Steemit is looking for unique individual users who will engage and use the system, not total number of accounts.

I guess people could keep making email accounts and facebook accounts and sign up for the steem power and only vote on one users post and eventually power down and transfer to one account, but most trying to game the system are looking for a quick buck and not willing to get their money over years.

I know how to game systems pretty well. It's just how my mind works. It's gotten me in some trouble, but I can now use it to point out bugs or exploits to help a community instead of just myself.

Thanks @bendjmiller222. Even then though, 3 Steem Power isn't going to impact much of anything. That's the whole point of this design. It's those who are VESTed which get to influence the network. Having 100 accounts at 3 Steem each is still only 300 Steem Power. Not exactly a whale and certainly not an influential vote, even if combined. The white paper gets into this stuff in detail, but I guess many haven't read it or thought it through.

Regarding defences against this kind of gaming, such as with bots, for example, well, first of all, flagging works effectively to push them off the page with subzero reputations, but I think that some kind of minor PoW that cannot be accelerated would limit user post rates, same as what HashCash (the precursor to bitcoin, in fact) and Bitmessage do, precisely to rate-limit spamming. Bitcoin uses it to rate-limit new coin issuance. It works as an inflation controller, but as Steem proves, you can direct inflation to useful purposes. Dash also demonstrates this principle as well, by redirecting it to fund development and platform marketing. Steem doesn't need this because the users themselves are the biggest marketers, and right now, playtesters, and maybe eventually the idea of this being a governance system to regulate developers may become integrated too.

I have read the white paper multiple times actually and

when I saw someone responded to this, I figured it would be you @lukestokes, even before I looked at the username.

This was actually meant to be a compliment (rereading made me realize that it may not have sounded like one).

You are correct that one hundred accounts at 3 steem power is not a very big account, but you could easily outsource and pay x amount of dollars for people to make fake facebook accounts and slowly build up a following of a lot of micro accounts voting for them.

It may not make a lot of money (then again if the price were to boost up, the value on each account could add up to a nice payday for someone), but I believe is clearly not the way steemit was designed to be used.

Steemit has added a lot of features to prevent abuse, but you are absolutely right in your reply to mine that a bunch of small accounts most likely won't be able to do much unless they scale up their micro operations.

Content is really what should be making money and finding content. I think that less steem power could even be given (or none) and make peoples first post worth a little bit more in some way. Just an idea.

Content is really what should be making money and finding content. I think that less steem power could even be given (or none) and make peoples first post worth a little bit more in some way. Just an idea

Exactly, it will be the great and quality content which will bring in fresh writers. why not give more weight to writers who have pulled more people into steemit based on their content? also aka the referral.

I understood it as a compliment and attempted to thank you but accidentally typed "Then" instead of "Thanks" (which I just edited). Sorry for the confusion.

That's an interesting idea... your Steem onlocked on your first post. Unfortunately, I think Steem is required in order to use bandwidth on the network to post, but I'm not sure how any of that works yet.

excellent way to put it, no need to get made when some one gets 500 votes and makes only $100 while others get 50 votes and makes $4000 its just who votes you. Minnows have no weight in the vote so having 490 votes from minnows means you get close to nothing. its just how it works and its perfectly fine, of course we all wished our content can make more then $500 a day... I know I would but that's just not the case. Build your reputation by providing great content and you will get noticed. Unless you made your self known outside of steemit and come here... I always say "your success travels with you" - @carlidos

This isn't a problem at all, why not wait till its a problem before fixing it so you don't go too far in he wrong direction.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

It's a problem right now, as some people control thousands of accounts:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1594979.msg16019000#msg16019000

1 person = 1 vote is doomed with such practices...

Well the bigger problem is active user count. Why should Steem power be squared ( I think that's right) maybe the the right formula is to the 1.5 power. This alone would help the minnows and dolpins have a bigger impact.

A vote per person with = weight would destroy the system. Steemit like @will-zewe has said is an investment. There could have been 0 monetary rewards. Look how excited people get when their IG selfie gets a lot of likes. By weighting votes you allow large investors to have more say in what they feel is the most valuable content. If all that were needed was a vote, i would go to every single family member and tell them id give them a quarter for every vote they make on just my content and keep investing in myself and not worry about others content one bit

You are assuming the high invested vote actually reads content. They actually use voting bots, and if your on that list, your in the in crowd. If not, sorry.

I am not assuming this. This is another type of investment. Whales, like everyone else have a limited voting power per day. They have made these auto votes to reward creators of good content and I have seen people have whale bots removed. Also if you look at @smooth or @berniesanders (both of who have voted for me and I am not on their bot list if they have one) you could see that they spend time engaging with others. Some whales have a bot and then at the end of the day read over the content. It's simply a different type of investment.

While I would hope that my content gets read, I would be happy to have created content that is deemed good enough to be put on the bot list. Check @sirwinchester. He didn't start with any bots on him and he made a big splash. I'm happy making the content I wish to and getting rewarded. I don't cater to any one audience and if that makes it so I am not on an auto bot list so be it.

I love the community more than the money here.

Yeah i'm a huge fan of smooth and bernie, they both engage and communicate, plus I'm pretty sure smooth is a huge video game fan which is totally right in congruence with myself. Smooth is probably my favorite whale not gonna lie.

Flag bots for capcha. Their vote doesn't count unless capcha is correct.

It's the design that is flawed. It's needs to be re-designed, obviously.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I don't know how to phrase this diplomatically, but I think your issue is that you were benefitting from the system, but now are not.

There is a fixed pot of steem that is generated by the blockchain every 24 hours - about $200,000 worth I think at the moment. If one person gets huge rewards, everyone else must get tiny rewards (as in $0.05 a post, especially if it's a growing platform and lots of people are posting. If it has gone from about 5000 users to 70,000 users it is not possible for a handful of people to continue to earn huge amounts and everyone get even less, because remember it is a fixed pot of steem. Something had to give.

The devs made a small change - they allowed the whales to choose on a sliding scale how much their vote would give. Before their vote was huge and they could only give 27 people a massive amount and lots of people nothing. Now they are trying to distribute the funds much better.

In addition, as the platform has expanded new writers have come in. The whale bots curate based on profit. If they've removed you from their list it is because they have found another more profitable writer to upvote. That is the nature of this platform.

The amount of Steem is fixed, the value of Steem is not. If Steem grows to 70k users, the value of 1 Steem will be higher and even so will the total reward pot of Steem in USD be higher.

Why dont start to pay a max. payout for each post, lets say 300$ for example.... more people would benefit at the end, guess it will be way more fair for everyone.

I didn't know about this modification, I had seen mention, but not a clear explanation. It may well be that I am wrong about curation rewards and they can become a net value add. Possibly some kind of ranking that modulates how the whale can win them would eliminate abuse potential, making it really a proper competition to see who can see the best stuff early on. The goal of developing with this AI algorithms to pick this then would make more sense.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Anyone who has more than 30,000 Steempower can now select how much to give - say 33% instead of the full value of their vote. That's why the really big single upvotes have stopped and you see a lot of smaller amounts given.

Yes it was added a few weeks ago to the Web GUI but was always a part of CLI based voting. When you use the CLI you give a percentage to indicate how much of your vote weight you want to give at the time. For the GUI it only applies to high value accounts from what I have ascertained (don't know the cut off) - they have a little slider like a volume control to decide how much they will give each post.

Ah, this explains why the multi-thousands rewards have stopped, and a lot more stuff is apppearing on the trending page.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

If I may interject: why the discrimination, why do only "whales" get to use a slider?

There is a minimum vote weight accepted by the blockchain at all to prevent spam. If you have low SP and you you reduce your vote power further with a slider your vote won't be acccepted at all.

Very interesting take. If the price is right and the people want to get paid more, maybe some sort of affiliate marketing or advertising system could be set in place. Money will not appear out of nowhere and people want to invest in something that has the potential to have many eyes on it. I hope that steemit is never publicly traded because that will kill the community and instead focus solely on the bottom line.

People also need to realize that since steemit is based on user content, those with a large stake want steemit to succeed. If the whales decide to vote on content that others feel is not worth the price they may move away where content is rewarded more for substance and that will make them lose a lot of money as investors.

So grow the collective expected account values using creative development and marketing?

The amount of users on Steem has nothing to do with the value of each user on Steem. There is something more going on.

https://steemit.com/steem/@dana-edwards/are-we-over-valued-or-under-valued-on-steemit-a-steemit-blogger-is-currently-valued-at-usd25-878

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

The pot of steem is fixed in a 24 hour period. And in dollar terms the amount distributed in any 24 hour period depends on the price of steem.

At present about $200,000 worth of steem is being distributed to 70,000 users. Of course not all of them post, I think Ned said 21,000 posts are being produced per 24 hours. If it was distributed equally, each post would get about $9.50. Of course the distribution is not even, it is done with the Pareto principle.

A month ago, when the price of steem was four times what it is now, you had $800,000 worth of steem distributed in a 24 hour period amongst a lot fewer users. I think it was 30,000 users at the time.

It is simply arithmetic - if you are distributing a fixed pot amongst a lot of people, then everyone must get less. If you are distributing a shrinking pot amongst even more people, everyone must get even less still.

Stellabelle was moaning that she wasn't getting paid the way she was when steem's price was four times what it is now and it's users were half. She's effectively arguing she should earn the same as she was and everyone else should sink to fractions of a penny to pay for it - in other words she wants a higher % of a shrinking pot to maintain her dollar amount and by definition she wants every one else to take home zeros to pay for it. That's a dodgy attitude to take particularly as she's couching it in terms speaking for the majority, LOL.

If you want individual posts to earn as much as they were and an expanding user base, then the price of steem must rise proportionately to pay for it all.

You achieved #1 ranking, you've earned an enormous amount here, and now you're throwing a tantrum and declaring that actually you've been just hanging out at a party in a drug dealer's basement. I'm sorry for any pain that may have come your way, but this approach seems unnecessary.

I don't really think it matters whether she's made big money or no money. If there are safety issues, then they need to be addressed. It often takes someone who has standing to truly draw attention to a problem. So good on her for speaking up.

Fine, address safety issues.
Does the #1 ranked poster need to sh*t on everything on the way out?

She didn't say she was leaving.. she was pretty clear that she will be exploring the other system and writing about it here.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Nothing is flawed about number of votes being meaningless. If you have been on other sites with rampant purchased followers and sock puppet bot voters you should understand this. IMO the biggest flaw is that the count of votes is displayed at all. Voting power = SP, not vote count.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

@smooth In a sense, you're correct, only invested users should have meaningful weight on content curation; however, keep in mind that the stake now may not accurately reflect user investment. In the long run, the rewards system is intended to align SP distribution with reputation (people who provide real value in the system outweigh trolls), but that self-balancing effect might be too slow. Eventually the number and quality of whales will be quite large, and they'll have sufficient bandwidth to upvote all kinds of good content and downvote the crap, but right now we're still working on attaining that level of decentralization in the content curation.

It appears that the decentralized social media competition is now on, and if Steem is going to survive, it needs to keep up. Part of that might be figuring out how to grow valuable users' relative SP faster. One obvious way to do this is to decrease the degree of dilution mitigation SP holders enjoy, which will require SP holders to create comparatively more value to maintain their slice of the pie, and instead allow the high-value minnows to grow their relative stake faster. I'm not saying this is the solution -- I haven't put enough thought into it -- it's just an idea off the top of my head.

@stellabelle is pointing out real problems. Let's not let our excitement about Steem lull us into complacency; we need to fully understand these problems, and act to resolve them at their roots.

Designing a content publication platform with an economically-driven curation model is still an open problem. Will the current algorithms move the SP distribution in a better direction? I don't know what an ideal distribution would look like, but certainly some distributions are better than others, and we would do well to figure out what makes for a better or worse distribution, and ensure we're moving in the right direction. Even if the current algorithms are moving in the right direction, are they moving fast enough? If someone else can create a competing platform that moves in the right direction faster, they should rightly eclipse Steem, as that would be a superior solution.

I like Steem, though, so let's try and beat 'em to it.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

@modprobe, my comment was narrower than that. I'm not suggesting that there can't be improvements, only that raw vote count is meaningless and has been consistently and rampantly abused on every other such platform, and those are platforms that don't even award money. With direct monetary incentives the abuse would be even greater.

So I agree with the broader issues you mention being considered and explored, I just disagree with statements made on the basis of "how many votes".

1000 minnows probably couldn't move that post.... but then again 1000 views on youtube doesn't pay the creator either.

+1

As a redditor for 5+ years, most votes are bots and the number is meaningless. This is the same on Steemit and I completely agree with this. Engagement is another story though -- there could be some economics built into posts that drive engagement (right now there's not).

This is where my ideas about groups and integrated chat systems helps. Especially the latter, because it is a place in which like minds can interact in real time and spin off ideas, or even just to organise external activities that base their economics and accounting, and put their marketing, on the Steem blockchain.

This post is past the initial reward period, and I didn't actually specifically write it just for rewards, I wrote it because I want to help people understand Steem:

https://steemit.com/ascensionteam/@l0k1/steem-is-not-a-blogging-platform-steem-is-an-ad-hoc-public-and-transparent-corporation-let-me-explain

If these principles are refined, expanded, and integrated, I think the solution of engagement is solved. A lot of what drives engagement cannot be directly integrated into Witness nodes, or easily quantified, and the mechanisms of users using Steem as their Department banking system and investment pool gets around this issue, so you can market, bank and account your little enterprise's activities, and by the simplicity of also doing so, the integration of Steem into the enterprise's accounting and fund management system, will naturally anchor more vested and held funds in the platform, where it continues to maintain the ability to scale up and keep rewarding good ideas and good content.

The problem is attention scarcity and limited means to delegate the human attention resources (human computation) in an orderly fashion. It is in this area that Synereo will excel with their design while Steem can adopt delegated human computation but it's not currently designed for it.

So you can simply let whales delegate their voting power and the problem is solved. I outline it here: https://steemit.com/steemit/@dana-edwards/time-to-decentralized-curation

The reward system itself is fine, but there needs to be more human attention, from a greater variety of minds, to distribute the Steem Power via curation. Randomization can help provide for that variety of minds.

So you can simply let whales delegate their voting power and the problem is solved.

Not even close. ;)

Maybe the function rewarding sp is too steep. I believe the function is based on squaring, why not based on a smaller exponential. Bots are not a problem unless not armies are making worthlessness ostensibly of over. Dollar or two. I honestly don't think this happens . If it does just penalize by the percent of votes that go to the same author like the thirty minute rule. If 100% of votes are one author then voting power drops to 1%, if 50% then 50% and if 1%?or less go to same author you get 100percent voting power.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

The squaring function of SP is largely a misconception. SP is linear-weighted between accounts. 5 accounts with 1 SP each voting on a post is exactly equal to one account with 5 SP voting on a post. The squaring comes into play when comparing posts against each other. A post with only a small amount of SP voting for it gets essentially no reward at all, and the reward rapidly climbs as the amount of SP voting for it (whether from one person or multiple people) increases. This is useful because otherwise you would have thousands of spam posts getting paid each just getting a few votes from each of those thousands of bulk accounts that @alexgr just posted about (vote limits per time does not work there).

So content is not judged by votes but by the SP (steem power) holders.

Correct and the answer is to decentralize curation itself. The owner of the Steem Power only wants the profits, they don't have to do the human computation if they are willing to accept half the profit.

Content is judged by votes, but 100 minnow votes will not be worth the same as one whale vote.

And you can build SP by writing good material. Which also qualifies you as a quality voter. I think the curation rewards system adds nothing but we will see whether I am right and this becomes commonly agreed.

We already have content arranged in order of number of votes. We only need to look at the Hot page. This page often shows posts with spam votes so of course the trending page ends up being better. But from what I can see at the moment it doesn't look like the posts that are getting the most votes are not getting enough payout.

I'm pretty sure the Hot page was reworked and no longer considers number of votes at all, only rshares (essentially SP) and recency. I could be wrong, but that was my understanding from what one of the devs told me.

It's not votes count only that needs to be hidden its everything, dollar amount and author included,

I disagree, I think that the biggest flaws on Steem remain in the interface code, not the blockchain. On the blockchain my personal bugbear is the curation reward system and flagging, I think both need to be scrapped, because the first encourages vote-gaming and the second encourages reputation-bombing by people with a lot of money to instantly upgrade their vote downgrade power. Take these two things out, add a group management system for moderating membership, then create a distributed chat system that functions like a lower latency version of bitmessage.

With all that in place, I think that my idea that Steem is a transparent, public corporation, it's somewhat different from being just a social network or blogging platform, it becomes a literal, functioning, living breathing, ad-hoc corporation in which everyone involved is incentivised to add value to the platform and make it bigger and better. Well, bigger impact, not necessarily complexity or excessive execution time for code...

On the blockchain my personal bugbear is the curation reward system and flagging....the first encourages vote-gaming and the second encourages reputation-bombing

Exactly these are big problems.

Take these two things out, add a group management system for moderating membership, then create a distributed chat system that functions like a lower latency version of bitmessage.

I don't know if it would definitely work but it is worth a try.

One other additional thing that I think might help (and I know it is controversial) is rank all posts according to the number of votes only and not the payouts - it may even help to hide the payouts as others have suggested.

Obviously the biggest problem with this would be using sybil accounts to upvote your own posts to get higher visibility. If someone could figure out a solution to that fatal flaw it would be fantastic.

This idea of ranking could be added as one of the members of the list 'hot', 'trending', etc. 'most-voted' would be a good name. Because it is vulnerable to sybil attacks, it would not be in the top of the list.

Regarding payouts, I think they should show more information, not less. The estimated current value, plus the curator share/author share, and perhaps even the SP and SBD that could be awarded.

This idea of ranking could be added as one of the members of the list 'hot', 'trending', etc. 'most-voted' would be a good name.

@l0k1 Actually that is a good idea - and using an appropriate name that explains that it is vote based would help.

Perhaps also having some kind of reputation ranking of the votes would be useful - this would need to be based on some kind of percentage based mean. It would need a suitable name - I was thinking "Voter Ranking Index" but that is terrible!

Regarding payouts, I think they should show more information, not less. The estimated current value, plus the curator share/author share, and perhaps even the SP and SBD that could be awarded.

That could work too. I don't think people like hiding information and the other thing is even if it was hidden people could just use a tool to add it back in from the blockchain - I'm sure someone could just create a browser extension to do it. I didn't think of that until now.

@l0k1 - there's a WHOLE lotta win in those two paragraphs.

I really don't think its flawed as I stated above, lets say you get 500 votes and 490 are from minnows those minnows have no weight value so you wont get much in $ but if you get 50 votes and they are all with much higher weight lets say over 5,000 steem power of course your going to get more $. That is the way i see it. the weight of the vote is what matters. not how many votes.

One vote per person wouldn't encourage people to buy steem. Steem has no value then. The more steem you have the more votes you have. This is totally fair.

People fail to understand that the voting system in Steem is like that of a publicly listed corporation. Vote power is based on stake in the platform.

If the 3000 content providers have no stake in the platform, then why would removing all of them cause the entire system to collapse. The system is dependent on them. How is that not a stake?

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

No, actually, that is a very common misunderstanding. The system depends on investors. Without them there is nothing to redistribute. The free stake you get when you start, gives you nearly no voting power. You have to either invest money, or quality capital, ie, articles that get votes, or you are a zero, and rightly so.

The issues that Steem faces at the moment is that investors can game the curation rewards system, and there is a remaining, serious means by which those with a big stake can harass smaller users, both potentially very serious problems, one we already are seeing, and the second given time will become a serious problem. Dan, one of the devs, hasn't looked at cases where this has happened, but I was directly involved in such a situation. Come to think of it, I haven't seen the whale that did that to me since.

My article, https://steemit.com/ascensionteam/@l0k1/steem-is-not-a-blogging-platform-steem-is-an-ad-hoc-public-and-transparent-corporation-let-me-explain lays it out pretty clearly, exactly what this platform is. This 3000 hypothetical users with no stake they are risking, risk nothing by leaving, and damage the system in no way by leaving either. If they have vote-worthy content, they already have raised their vested SP, and are no longer plankton.

While non-steem related posts are more marginal in their value, they don't entirely not matter either. People want to read good stuff, and people with big vests (whales, dolphins) vote up good stuff because when joe sixpack shows up to read, there's something interesting there. It is not everything, but the more plankon, the greater the chances there is minnows, and amongst the minnows, there is dolphins, and if the user sticks around and keeps up the good work, they could become a whale just backed mainly by their excellent writing skills and ability to predict (or luck, maybe) what subjects may be of the kind of vote-attracting interest that keeps them being able to work as a writer instead of getting a regular job.

But ultimately, the core elements are that people will, in some way, with their posts, induce people to vest assets in the system, and use the forum to discuss the projects that they are involved with, that are profitable, and will be a target location for part of their long term investment or short term banking solution, for their activities.

All of the above concerns are part of the whole picture. People who just watch, don't need to even sign up. The blockchain is public and so is the website, currently the main interface. Steem is not about the consumers, it's about the producers. It's up to those who want to participate, to find ways to turn their interests into something that either wins votes, engenders profitable business that invests in Steem as part of its business model, or more centrally, participates in the central building of the platform's facilities for users, which is another type of value-add.

Steem is not meant to just be a blogging platform, or just a cryptocurrency, but something that blends both together. Its success will entirely, ultimately, depend on who joins, and what they do, that brings more money into invest in the enterprises that users create with its help.

If you were to invest in a company like Apple and buy a share at $100 (rounded) you are important to apple. If just you left, yes there would not be a big goodbye party, but if everyone who had invested $100 left, now Apple has a giant problem. They have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in them by people with a share or less. But you as a holder of one share is not that big in comparison to 100,000 shares. Unlike investing though, you have the ability to make an incredible amount on $0 invested. But yes the system would take a nosedive if many users decided to just leave. So yes every minnow to every whale is invested, but not equally and that would prevent any investment in the platform at all.

There are no investors @loki unless you think buying power ups in Second Life is investing in it.

@dana-edwards

There are no investors @loki unless you think buying power ups in Second Life is investing in it.

That's a little silly, second life has nothing to do with steem especially in the stake weighting system for votes.

Investors are investing in both the assets built into steem and also into the incentives for quality articles, and curation. And I think that it should be pretty clear by now that groups are on the agenda of the developers now, since I have given a clear illustration of how it helps defuse the problem of centralisation of attention in the trending and hot feeds, and would allow users to specialise in subject areas.

It's investing it's not fair. Invest some money if you want a higher upvote weight.

Last i checked @stellebella was worth over $200,000

I dont have a half million

In your mind, who is the arbiter of what is "fair" or "unfair"?

Have you seen the interface of synereo? its why i dumped all my coins. great idea, executed terribly.

that's the first thing i noticed.. it's one of the ugliest interfaces I have ever seen.... ugh

They've spent a lot of time and care on the architecture... when it finally drops, I don't think they'll leave it looking like LiveJournal.

I took some time earlier today to study Synereo a bit and from what I have seen it is going to be awesome and I am feel rather excited about it !

Thanks @stellabelle for providing a wake up call to this community! My hope was that Steemit would bring out the best in each of us. Sorry the reality for some has not been the same. I'll keep an eye out for new developments across blockchain social media.

Disappointing attitude from someone who has been so generously rewarded on this platform, and has received so much attention and privileges from the dev including having the opportunity to meet them in person, and having them answering personally your emails.

Good luck on Synereo (when it actually exists). I hope they'll be up to your expectations.

Attachment based on personal gain blinds people.
If we cannot speak our minds openly without fear of retribution, then this experiment has failed.
I bring in real concerns, real solutions. It is up to the market to decide what is best. This is how everything is run. People get too attached, that is one of the central problems, and tunnel vision will only make a competitor stronger. I am not going anywhere but I'm also not going to censor myself. If people cannot handle hearing the truth, that is their choice. Me, I prefer to speak my mind, hopefully raising questions that the masses have muffled from their minds.

The problem isn't that you are critical. I'm quite critical myself and encourage constructive criticism in the way I'm voting. The problem is that what you are doing here isn't constructive criticism at all. You are literally bitching on Steem and the dev team with really unfair judgement, displaying a jaw dropping amount of entitlement, jumping the gun to premature conclusions, and pumping a project that so far is complete vaporware and which only goal is to monetize attention and influence in disregard of actual content, which makes the comparison irrelevant and unfair. Do you really understand Synereo? Do you realize that in Synereo like in classic social networks, users' attention is the product? Do you understand that contributing doesn't give you a stake in the network?

The reason I'm pointing at how well you have been received and rewarded here is that the least you could do after all that you have been given is to be patient and benevolent, and elect to suspend judgement when it's obvious that the dev team is still in the middle of getting the kinks out.

That post was really a let-down.

Although the issues are important and I have raised them too, I don't see the economic viability of Synereo. I wrote on Bitcointalk.org recently:

Please check my logic.

Synereo has a chicken-or-egg dilemma. They need massive adoption to drive demand for the AMP token by advertisers, yet what is their plan to onboard adoption? The masses don't care enough about ideological decentralization to adopt some quirky new social network.

Steemit showed how to onboard some usership, but it also appears to be limited by the fact that blogging isn't that popular and isn't something very many people can do well. Also there is no way to distribute the rewards such that all users would be incentivized to join for financial gains, even a uniform distribution would be a paltry amount per user. (also add that it is stuck in a circle-jerk where we can't maximally earn unless we cowtail to the preferred memes there)

Also both were allegedly "pre"-mined ~90%. Steemit claims it will distribute about 40% of that to signups, but signups appear to be mostly Sybil attacks, not real users. And no where near the millions of signups needed to distribute that 40%.

Regarding the plan for advertisers to buy Synereo's AMP token, I wrote:

Advertising revenue is not sufficient to pay the users. We've documented this so many times, it is really ridiculous that I've had to repeat this dozens of times. I was the first person to point this out several months ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/28/how-much-are-you-worth-to-facebook

You could pay a few curators or authors from ad revenue, if the other users don't expect to get paid. But then what is your onboarding paradigm to bring in the masses?

I am waiting to see how Synereo actually works. For me at least, the process calculus mumbo-jumbo technobabble is an enigma at this point. But I don't understand in any case how they expect to be able economically justify this with an advertising revenue model. Perhaps they feel they can much better target ad spending relevance, and thus achieve much higher revenue per user?

Btw, I have also written the following about Steemit recently:

I highly doubt it. Paying blogging by diluting investors (or later by capturing transaction fees for some widespread commerce) doesn't make any sense. The entire point was to onboard the users to enable a widespread commerce ecosystem. It was never about paying for blogging long-term.

Why does Facebook need a blockchain for this? To be able to pay authors by taking the money from investors? What is the investment incentive? Again I don't think any large market has been demontrated, nor any sustainable funding model.

Steemit does not have an email system. I mean you will only get emails if you list your email address. Or name (from which the email can be found). This is done publicly. Once you do that, you can't ask for ...personal privacy protection. And there's nothing steem or anyone else can do for that matter. Same would happen if you were writing in reddit.

If I understand correctly you say that synereo allows users to make their content visible only to their friends or a selected audience. I really don't know how that can work with a blockchain. Once information goes into the blockchain it is theoretically accessible by all - unless you somehow encrypt the information with some key and only your friends have that key, but these keys would then be traded between users so that one can read the content of others without being their follower.

data is encrypted.

They are working on adding private messaging. But private messaging doesn't solve issue #1.

I think your disappointment may be related to your expectations regarding what decentralized systems can or should do. You want centralized-level safeguards on a decentralized platform. Is this feasible? I don't think so without sacrificing decentralization.

data is encrypted

Yeah that's what I suspect but if your followers can decrypt the content, then they can also pass the decryption keys to others (?)

It's very feasible, and particularly on Synereo which has composability as a core design principle. Synereo is going to be a Social Computer, which means it can be programmed in any way we want to program it, using "Social Contracts" which is basically like smart contracts but for the social computer.

I setup the docker node to play around with, I'm still reading up on it and rholang etc. But it looks really interesting with the composability aspect as you put it. Might be able to replace or incorporate some other dApps like storj etc. So you can create contracts to rent extra storage space or cpu time and so on. Seems extremely open ended with what you could do.

I think thats actually solvable.
You could you have two keys? Your followers get a key and when viewing the content a positive check for the user key + follower key allows a third (stored) key to be added to the transaction signing.
Or perhaps just a check on user key + user is follower would work. This is just spit-balling. But i dont see an issue with multi-key signing to decrypt. It would however have several other downsides like usability, reduced public content (network effect), more difficult third-party app integration. Etc etc.

But the idea of encrypting content to be only viewable by some whitelist of users seems possible

Sort of, until your "private" content gets leaked or reposted somewhere. If you have a lot of followers you won't have any idea who did it either.

Not only could I encrypt it to a whitelist of users, I could encrypt some content with ABE, (attribute based encryption) so only users who have a certain reputation quantified on the blockchain can access it.

Issue #1 I personally have played a small part in helping with, posting a bug report on the github at for steemit.com. The 'mute' function is still a bit broken, but it actually hides posts now.

Yeah but they can still follow you around and post replies to anything of yours they want to and when you check your replies it shows up there already maximized so you have to read it. I have @feminism following me around doing this once in awhile. He is muted, but I still have to look at his replies. They only person I've felt the need to mute so far.

And whoever that is is gonna look like a twit. They can by all means go on doing this dumbshit but in the end they will get everyone they expose to their stupidity pressing the mute button on their popup. To implement a solution another way closes up and centralises the system.

Yeah he follows me too. Just a petty troll. I won't be sharing anything like email addresses here, this is a blogging platform not a social network!

@beanz, I beg to differ somewhat. It is a social network, but we are not being farmed for marketing information. There is many companies that use social networking tools, at the last place I was working, until 2 weeks ago, we used skype, and our support ticket management system had an inbuilt messaging system for tracking internal information relating to tasks.

The only substantive difference between a social network (eg, facebook, twitter) and this and other work-oriented communication systems, is the former the 'customer' is the product, where as in here, we are the producers and workers as well as sometimes consumers.

Actually the wallet can be used to send messages. Some people have been abusing that function already.

Yep, I've seen it - at least it's not email though...

Encryption could be quiet easy, public key cryptography. You can't "trade" the keys like that with PKI.

If I sent you my public key then you can encrypt a message which only I can read on my end. If you sent me your public key then I can encrypt a message which only you can read on your end. Because each of us exclusively have our private keys, only we can decrypt the messages even if it's stored on a blockchain.

I have received a private message over Steemit this way and no one can read it but me.

I was assuming the post is blockchained only once, otherwise (I'm assuming) it won't scale. I mean you'd need to have the same post encrypted as many times as there are readers. A 10kb post served x1000 would become 10mb.

Steemit can handle that kind of scaling. Is it a high value post though? A transaction fee would be required.

There are other ways too, like break the private key up so it's owned by a group and then let them vote to decrypt it in some fashion and then it's posted in a self destructing note page. There are ways if you really want to do it, or just look at Bitmessage which managed to do a decentralized encrypted 4chan type thing.

You can create a single key for the post and then encrypt that key using the public keys of the authorized readers. With 256 bit keys this is 32 KB of keying.

But still the problem remains that the posts after already being decrypted will be reposted or leaked.

Yep, I don't see how it can work. The more followers, the bigger the risk of weak "links" that could leak the info.

Plus all encrypted blockchained info are just running on a ticking clock till their decryption. I think Satoshi first said that you don't want any kind of encrypted messages in the blockchain - it would be an accident waiting to happen...

Interesting article. I think you are making some good points.
A big difference between Steem and Synereo: Steem is paying for posting quality content. Synereo is paying to read articles. Here on Steem authors have to spend time and effort in good content. On Synereo companies can write advertorials and pay users to read them. Can we expect a lot of high ranking commercial, low quality articles on Synereo?

I think it's a little more complex than that. This is how Synereo works as I understand it:

I'm a content creator, and I publish an article on Synereo. I put 100 AMPs on it, and that means it will come up on more people's feeds. You see it, and receive 1 AMP for reading it, paying you for your attention. You decide that you like the article so much, you put 10 AMPs back on it, propelling it further so more people can see it, but I also get a percentage of the AMPs you put on it.

Yes, you can pay people to read things, but it's going to be more cost effective if you create things that people want to read and share, as opposed to dumping a bunch of money on something that nobody wants to see anyway.

How do they know you are actually reading anything and not having a bot that does the "reading" for you?

You can quiz with a magic word or phrase or "human computation" proof. There are ways to determine if a human read an article. For teaching and tutorials Synereo makes plenty of sense.

Steemit is held hostage by a gang of elitist jerks who dictate what may be shown not according to any sensible rules but by narcissistic abandon.

a fairly accurate assessment actually. I would add, though, the whales are aware of this, and are taking measures to let dolphins do the curating job. I guess starting a network with intelligent curators could have been a smart move. Ah, it's all in Beta. A good design brings joy, a bad design causes suffering. Ah, a group of women, who cares? They are disposable.

I hope that safety at steemit can be improved. I do agree that posts which are original, informative and engaging should be rewarded more to improve the quality of content at steemit

I joined Synereo several days ago.

how did you join exactly?

  ·  8 years ago (edited)
  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I just posted a comment on a blog page. It let me.
https://blog.synereo.com/2016/08/16/the-synereo-cartoon-contest/#comment-40

Yeah, you didn't join yet. It's not released. You just joined their wordpress blog's comment section.

This looks to just be a wordpress log in. Is it actually logging into the Synereo platform?

probably means they bought AMP on an exchange....exactly what I just did on bittrex! Just put all my steemdollars into AMP. Edit: they were much but still! =)

Deviation from the norm is essential to improvement.
If you lock yourself away from ideas and people that don't conform to your preconceived ideal you will be living in a bubble, not the reality around you.
That being said, girls have a very different experience online than boys.
If you have a troll, we, the community, need some way to be advised of that so that we can dogpile them?

2 Problems Plaguing Steemit That Synereo Has Already Solved

Synero hasn't solved anything. It's just a project not a live platform. I find it very unfair to compare just a project with an already operating platform. There is a word for that: VAPORWARE

When Synereo has an actual platform deployed then it will be time to write about what they are actually doing better. Because today Synereo is just a token (AMP) with a promise and nothing more than that....

Steemit очень молод. На данный момент его надо поддерживать, и помогать настраивать. Конечно, в автомобильном мире: после выпуска новой модели - сколько раз могут делать отзывы? Эту систему создают люди, такие же, как и мы все собравшиеся. Всё будет в порядке, уверен!

Interesting. I have not taken Synereo seriously until reading this post. I think making it relationship based is a good way to go. The social aspect of steemit seems like little more than an afterthought. If Synereo can offer a better social experience, I'm not sure what advantage Steemit will be able to claim... I suppose the main thing Steem has going for it is the economic system, but these days even that is demonstrating weakness....

Steem has a solid economic basis. Social networking features can be added, but I think it is fair to say that ultimately, it is going to be economically driven and competitive, and social networking features will suit anarcho-corporate organisation needs rather than circle-jerk progressivism.

If new systems come out, that implement everything that Steem has implemented, but build already the features... Well, first of all, in the competitive markeplace, Steem has the edge because it already has that sorted out. It will be hard to pull users off this platform and onto another one with less track record.

Elements of the economic system are proving to be unworkable, will eventually be scrapped, even if it happens in a fork that retains everyone who otherwise thinks this is the way to do things. Anyone with a little education in austrian economics can already see why this works, and even if Steem drops to 0.20 for a while as investors who didn't realise what they were getting into jump out, thanks to the crab-bucket theory, they are going to have to keep their accounts active and will be forced, by their jumping in on something they didn't understand, to get a schooling.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

As a content developer, and in the process of producing a work which will result in a great deal of content over the course of a few years. I am very interested in the steemit construct as a way around the gatekeeper effect of facebook/youtube etc.

But I truly do not fully understand how things work, how to leverage various aspects of the platform that would be beneficial to both the steemit community and my project. If the goal is to work with content providers such as myself, then it would seem that there should be some stability in the process that can be at least planned for/with/around. And some manner of CLEARLY stating such. If you expect developers to spend money on content then post it on a platform that has extreme promise but is unreliable...well ?

I am about to release my 2nd project-post and I am still rather uncertain exactly what to expect. I was somewhat successful with the first post (http://goo.gl/cliI88) - earning over $2,000. But what was of much more importance and interest was the responses from the community. That was very positive and has led me to continue to work with the platform.

However that said... for the sake of continued (and refined) exposure for any project, I think the tools exist within the framework of steemit. But certain things are lacking. One of my biggest issues is the lack of support for embedding of higher quality video from Vimeo. This is an absolute must if I am to place content directly here. As it is now I am directing viewers off steemit to see my clips and most like as of next week will probably engage with lrby.io to see how I can integrate their platform into my project plans.

Regardless, steemit is an incredibly powerful platform that is already disrupting the industry and sending chills and shockwaves through facebook/google/reddit/instagram/twitter/youtube.

I also want to add here that it simply cannot be run by an elitist mentality. You really need fantastic technical support that works with developers. This is not a one way street here. If you want us to stay then engage please.

Sir you need a gatekeeper-free way to publish, distribute, monetize, and interact on your content. I will be contacting you in the future about this. I am not quite ready yet. But I think I know what you need.

Look forward to it thanks...

Steemit was released too soon, grew too fast and this may be its biggest problem so far.

Great post and point @stellabelle
I think this is realy unfair, couse it dont mater how many votes you got, since it dont have real value anny more.
The whales or geeks or wath you would name it, is acualy only vote some few peaple, they would give a bigg cashout.
I think personaly Synero could be the major platform at this days. Steemit is realy dead for now, and the price only sink, and big hands power down, and dump alot of coins. So it must be anny changes. @dantheman talk about change the payment to the reputations, but havent seen it yet.

As it is for now, is no chanse at all, to get something out of this platform. Annyway wath i post or comment, i only get a few dollar.
I am not complaining but, i feel some unfair votes who allways goes to the celeberties or the same peaple all the time almost.

I remember when you get 1-3000 $ for your post, wath happend with that?

Some of the trouble you may experience is due to the lack of multilingual support. If you could post in your native tongue and have it translated to another language i think it would help you a lot.

There are some great minds working hard behind the scenes an you must realize that as steemit evolves, it will make new changes. It is in beta and so new that people need to give it a chance, but still voice their opinions, because unlike most social media platforms, users have a say in the company.

Yes you have maby a point there. I could try it and see what happens. Thanks for hints.

Yes it is, and we are beta yet. Yes utterance freedom is important, and could put forward their views on what they miss and what should have been available. Yeah, okay, and have the opportunity here and look promote to what time brings and when steemit final.

I have seen you comment on many other blog posts and really enjoy your perspective. I still think that people that create great content will eventually be rewarded :)

The whole Steemit Beta and Synereo concept floors me. The masterminds who thought up the platform and infrastructure of support are truly visionaries from another dimension!

Thanks for this @stellabelle. I want to know because you are good at this type of thing. I would have been in on steemit sooner if I listened to you, but I don't want to make the same mistake twice...

@stellabelle - I'm kind of disappointed in the way you handled this. You raise valid issues here, but the way you did it seems fairly immature (in my opinion). Steem is an anonymous uncensored public blockchain, so to some extent *ss-holes being able to say/do whatever they want comes with the territory. I agree that Steemit and the community should take this issue seriously and try to do something to prevent it, but there are more constructive ways to go about it.

As a senior member of the community, when you essentially throw Steemit under the bus and say "everyone go to Steemit's competitor" - what type of message are you trying to send? Is the situation really that unsolvable and bad?

I don't know if you are going to read and respond to this, but in the effort of trying to be constructive and solve this - can you please clarify what your issue with harassment really is? I wasn't able to fully understand it based on what you described in your post. Are you looking to basically be able to completely block a user from being able to message you at all on Steemit? If that is it, would implementing a "block" feature that prevented a user from being able to comment or reply to anything you post solve your issue?

yes, I think you listed some weaknesses, I had similar thoughts written in my post here: https://steemit.com/steemit/@donneker/my-thoughts-about-the-steem-blockchain-in-current-state-as-social-media-platform

Great post. I bumped into Synereo recently and I am definitely going to join it.
I have got enough of being marginalized by social stratification on Steemit.
I would like to feel appreciated and rewarded for my creativity.
Considering all these great properties of Synereo, I have got this impression that I am likely to abandon Steemit just like I abandoned Facebook for Steemit. It looks like it is going to be a short ride with Steemit (or rather rollercoaster ride, where most of the time the tracks are just flat low).

Ever chat room I entered I have been mocked for being a Steemer. They say it is a one big elaborate ponzi scheme. Will I have the last laugh someday?

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Thanks for bringing up the two major points I've been looking for, I'll be checking out Synereo as well, however I think Synereo is not made for easy adoption as it might require some computer knowledge. From what I've learned Synereo won't have a website but will have a social media client that will act like a node in the network, so this platform is obviously made for advance user at the moment. Also I am very interested in where the money will come from as Steemit has a understandable economic structure. But I'll be looking forward to see where both services progress.

After looking at their demo video it looks way too complicated for a non-technical person. Drag this persons icon over here put this article over there then do this and then do that.

As a developer myself, what I love about steemit is that it is very easy to use and clean. I know there are things that still need to be worked out and done better but it has only been a few months.

But time will tell and there is certainly room for many platforms. Look how many messaging apps there are now.

I hope you don't give up on steemit. You add a tremendous amount of value here. One of the great things about steemit, is the devs have responded quickly to many issues. There have been many improvements during the last month. The devs seem open to suggestions. That gives me hope that steemit can continue to improve. But it still needs vigilant users to help keep the site headed in the right direction. Please keep doing that.

There is definitely an imbalance of voting power weight applied to the voting system, and also too much low quality content clogging up the new section. I await to see how Synereo will hand the content feeds for people to come across new material. Hopefully it will be a more equitable system indeed.

Thank you for the information. Peace.

very interesting points, I appreciate your post!

Lots of challenges for both platforms. Being totally open has advantages, but can be abused. There will always be trolls and other lowlife

The difference lies in creating code with built-in compassion.

Yes that is a giant issue when it comes to automation and what you wrote about Musk

I want to save this article for later viewing but can't? I how do I share this to my personal feed?

.LOOK AT THIS CLOWN PU;MPING SHITCOIN
WE NEED NO IDENTIY-

Will have to take a look at Synero.

Synero

Thanks for confirming that the Synereo name is not going to be easy for people to remember and type.

Darn it! Yup, you now have your empirical evidence.

At least you didn't write 'scenario' or Cheerios, but you probably weren't informed verbally which can be the case with viral word-of-month spread.

Problem #1: Steemit users have no control over their personal safety and whom they choose to associate with or not associate with.

It would be fair to consider the benefits of this, too. Steem offers an uncensorable blogging platform. As we have seen many many times lately, "need for personal safety" is usually abused to manipulate and censor open discussions. That's why the whole world needs places like Steem.

If you are not interested in open discussion and prefer to have a safe space, there is already several different social media platforms for you. Steem is not for everybody.

Negative Effects of Steemit.com’s Inaction Regarding User Safety: Mass fleeing from the site. Lack of trust in both the developers and inherent design structure of Steemit. There was no compassion built into the code.

Of course all those who don't like open discussion will flee from the site. The compassion is built for open discussion, not for SJW bullshit.

Problem #2: Popular and well-respected, valuable content creators and influencers and also those with high reputation do not currently control the direction of the reward system.

If rewards are not distributed with stake based voting, it will create other problems. If you want to have balanced discussion, you should talk about those too.

If I had the means, I would personally want to add at least $100 to @tuck-fheman’s payout, as I think it is high-quality, labor-intensive and extremely hilarious plus being insightful.

You have the means. Just send him $100 tip.

Another issue: one of the accounts I value the most is @dana-edwards. The monetary rewards are not flowing to this user even though it is one of the most valuable and intelligent ones in existence on Steemit currently.

The system itself is not about only you. It's about everybody. The rewards are distributed based on how all users vote, not just you.

her reputation must suffer from this.

It would appear there are kinks to fix, but it looks like the founders are at it with a new experiment in mind coming soon.

I can't wait for the Synereo release, I also think steemit is very ugly

Wait are you already taking me who is mostly 493 Seconds old here on steemit, away to synereo?

Thank you for your post. Still trying to understand all the viewpoints.

Thank you! I had no idea synereo even existed. Will definitely be joining!

It would be very nice to see an overlay where unless you are mutually followed. The author of content is hidden and the ability to comment removed.

I am sorry this has happened, and hope to see changes made that benefit everyone. I agree, ignoring them should not be the option.

and yes, I understand it can't be removed from the blockchain. But the majority will never look there.

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