TODAY I LEARNED - What a Detailed Map of the Election Results May Mean

in til •  8 years ago 

I had an interesting conversation with a man earlier. If his insight is accurate, I learned something new today.

As he was considering the election results, he noticed a result map that showed the results by county. There is some variance, but for the most part, a lot of the Trump votes came from more rural areas, while the majority of the Clinton votes came from the cities.


Source

The man who mentioned this to me had a hypothesis about why this is. His thoughts were that there is a different mentality between those who live "in the country and own their own land" and the majority of city dwellers who rent, and do not own much.

He also pointed out how the Clinton supporters reacted to the election results, and thought that this was evidence that his theory was correct. Basically, in many areas, a good amount of property was destroyed during the protests.

Since rural citizens only have their own property to destroy and the property of their neighbors, they do not generally react in this way, and have more of a respect for private property.

When people can be seen destroying private property in protests and riots, it shows that they do not share this perspective. Many rural folks know their neighbors and those who live nearby. This is harder to accomplish in the city, because there are so many more people.

When I lived outside of Madison, WI, I did not know any of my neighbors. When I lived in New Orleans, LA, I could travel around the block and not recognize the people who lived there. Now, even though I have only lived out in the country for one year, I know everyone within a few mile radius, but that is a whole lot less people thank lived within a few blocks of me when I was in the city.

Since I had never looked at it this way, it was interesting to get exposed to the idea. Though not every part of it may be accurate, and though each person (whether in the city or in the country) is an individual, there still may be some truth in his evaluation.


Or, maybe the "country folk" (except for @papa-pepper) are a bunch of out-of-date, backwards hillbillies.


I will continue to look into this, and what else I can come up with pertaining to the potential validity of this perspective.

I just figured that I would mention it to give you some food for thought.

Those were his thoughts, what are your?

I'm on the mobile today, so no fancy signatures, but this post is open for Operation Translation.

Thanks, @papa-pepper

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As someone interested in Social Sciences, this issue isn't exactly new.

Here are a few helpful articles (from 2013 and 2012) with similar results from the 2012 election:

What Is It Exactly That Makes Big Cities Vote Democratic?

And:

Red State, Blue City: How the Urban-Rural Divide Is Splitting America

Thanks for the links!

Though the info may not be new, I didn't learn about it until earlier, and it looks like not everyone agrees.

Thanks, I only just now learned that #til means "Today I Learned" from @the-alien in his post [Announcement] Jumpstarting New Tags, Rewarding Comments, Boosting Engagement and Going Viral!, so thanks!

The dissenters are welcome to read the articles and debate the data.

That tag was relatively new information for me too!

Same as the Brexit, nothing happens by accident.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/Manifesto.pdf

Good point @majes, and thanks for the link!

Sounds legit.
Thanks for sharing!

I believe that it could be a factor.

I believe the electoral college vs popular vote debate ties in with this also.

Agreed, it is a most interesting system.

Super post. There are sociological reasons that the oligarchy wants people to live in cities. People are easier to control if they don't have a strong community. If you don't know your neighbors, like in most cities, then it makes people much easier to fleece. That's why the UN projects urban population to be around 70 percent by 2050, because it's part of the agenda. Also, that's why so many movies glorify city life and make fun of the "country bumpkin" life. It's to subconsciously make people desire to live in the city. Maybe I should do a post about this......

Yes in deed, one only has to study the published works or the various thinktanks and we begin to see a plan.

This is why many science fiction writers seem to predict the future. It's a plan, and they were privy to it...

But I know the end game, and we win :)

“Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth” (Matthew 5:5)

Well said. Thank you.

That would make a great post!

I think it really boils down to people make people crazy. The closer you live to other people the crazier you are. I'm just basing this on my personal experience, but I think my wife is a lot crazier now after living with me for 30 years then when I first met her. Of course, it could just be prolonged exposure to me that makes people crazy.

I live near NYCity and I live in a very very mixed community. We live pretty close together and we all get along. We want to get along and we support everyone in all it's diverse glory. The folks in the rural areas are more isolated and not exposed to all the human differences.

The man who made the comment used to live near there too, so I guess opinions still vary...

In recent history, at least, rural areas tend to vote conservative, urban go liberal. It's an interesting tension in CA, where the coastal cities almost always vote liberal, but the inland areas go conservative. It's a very wide separation in the demographic that has prompted many to say that CA should split into two states.

I suppose that dividing would be easier than listening to all those coexist bumper stickers they keep putting on their cars... Oops, I didn't want to promote hypocrisy.

The more inner the city, the more there is larger government influence... jobs, handouts, etc. So for the mass populace there it pays to vote for the feeder.

that is not what is going on. Perhaps in Wash DC, but not elsewhere.

Interesting viewpoint.

People are becoming dependant on the government, which leads to bondage.

lol I live near madison right now

Right on, I'll be passing through in about a month.

I was in Sun Prairie at the time.

verona >>>

I know a police officer in that town... Long story, but a true one.

do tell :)

perhaps later...

I know certain officers for a variety of reasons...

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Very interesting, it makes sense to me.

My 2 cents:
Hillary was the first lady when Bill was president, she had her chance to help people out at that time but did nothing. The first lady is the advisor to the president, and plays a big role in social activism, and don't forget her husband was the president.
Michelle Obama did more to help others as a first lady compared to Hillary. Michelle should run for 2020, even if Trump does a great job she would still win in a landslide.

I love Michelle and the Obama's. First class family. But I do not think Michelle would consider running, ever- I don't think she seeks to be in the political spotlight.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I am honestly surprised if that is new to you. Because people from the country have always (and in every country haha, bad word joke here) voted more conservative. Meaning both anti-change and anti-"strangers", which you could interpret as changing people anyway.

The reason for this is not property though (and Trump voters would have rioted if Clinton had won, and did so even before).
The reason is simply that people in the cities are USED to change. They often meet people that differ a lot (compared to country folk). They hear "strange" ideas a lot. They get accustomed to more things etc.

You can see that easily at "ethnic" food. For example where I live (former GDR) indian food was unknown since not so long ago. 2 years back the nearest indian restaurant was 30 miles away. So 90% of people have never eaten real indian food.
Then an indian restaurant opened. And it happened what always happened.
There were those who jumped on the opportunity and eat there the first week.
And there were those who said: Nah, I dont need that. I dont want that. My great-great-great-grandfather has never indian food, so I dont need it, too!

Of course there are a lot of shadows between those extremes, but that is what happens.

Now, the "try new" people are those who move to cities. Because they want the new things there or because they are less inclined to stay behind frightened. At the same time the "grandfather" types detest the change of the city (and in case of people, often get racist or anti-LGBT).

So you have a bias that progressive people flock to cities, where they find more opportunity to be progressive and more shades to move that progressiveness on.
On the country the opposite works in the same way. Someone who likes new stuff wont find it and nobody with whom he can talk about it. It may well be he is seen as a wired egghead by the other 142 people in the village.

Cultural change ALWAYS started in cities, and Trump is as un-change as you can get if you arent a mormon.

There are many, based on the comments below, who don't even believe it, so apparently I'm not the only once who hadn't considered this evaluation before.

Glad I found it ^^ If you read this carefully with my points in mind you will see that he is basically saying the same about teh difference.

http://boingboing.net/2016/11/23/vi-harts-statistical-perspec.html

Thanks! I appreciate that!

I'm with @lennstar on this one. Here's an example from my high school years. Our journalism class was coming back from a out-of-town multi-school conference. We stopped for dinner at a Swedish smorgasbord in Lindsburg, Kansas - a little town known for its Swedish heritage. We ended up leaving because some of the teachers and other kids were uncomfortable with the food -- the Swedish meatballs were just too weird. We went to get hamburgers. That story describes my town's overall worldview, too. I left the day after high school graduation.

I don't know that property ownership could be a cause. It's an interesting correlation, but I think there are much more crucial social factors at play. Yes, more people from rural areas voted for Trump, but things like education, socioeconomic status, race and religion, and other factors are likely more central to a person's proclivity to vote for a particular candidate. Still, an interesting correlation and thought.

Education is a really interesting variable to consider, because many people would conclude that the general education (K-12) is nothing more than indoctrination.

Once we consider this the college level, we see so many required classes that are probably nothing more than a further shaping of the individuals mind.

Since there are not many college graduate jobs in the country, we would expect a higher concentration of these individuals to be within the city limits.

Of course there are many variables, and they all probably play a role.

Wasn't some University in CA one of the biggest donors to the Clinton campaign?

I don't think that destruction of property during protests has anything to do with city people not caring about private property because they rent and rural people caring because they own their homes. Firstly, protests here in Portland have been by and large peaceful with the occasional violence but of course the press focuses mostly on the violence which creates a false impression. I can fairly assume that this is typical nationwide. Most people are just using the only way they can to state their disagreement with the electoral college and their worry about what this election will mean for minorities, women and immigrants. Here in Portland initial violence wasn't even local - it was by a group of Anarchists traveling around city to city showing up at protests with a violent presence. There are destructive people in city and country both just like there are intelligent people in the city and country both. So many stereotypes are divisive -rural people are uneducated, city people are violent because they don't care about other's property - and I think it's crucial to try to find bridges, to assume people care and are basically trying to do what they think best. Just my 2 cents on this post.

I completely understand your viewpoint, and thanks for sharing it.

I do find it interesting that these same people now disagreeing with the electoral college would have been singing it's praises if their candidate had won, if you know what I mean.

Hi again @pap-pepper, I believe it's because there has never in history been such a discrepancy between the popular vote and the electoral college. As you may remember, people didn't protest over Gore's lose, they were just heartbroken, but the popular vote and electoral college were closer. So this time I don't believe it's simply about the candidate. But having said that, people are mobilized on something they have felt but not acted upon because so many people fear for their black friends, their friends from south of the border and the east, and women. Also worth saying is that our new president elect has said for over 20 years that he wanted this electoral college abolished, I don't hear him speaking now. Again, just my 2 cents.

actually my friend just told me that president elect specifically sung the praises of the electoral college on his twitter account after he won.....hmmmmm
also, he actually does his own tweets so someone else didn't make an error on this one.

Good points, and thanks again for sharing, especially the Trump/Electoral College one! (I supported neither Trump nor Clinton)

I wish that so many of the "friends" of these people weren't the ones making them irrationally afraid. Check out this image from this post by @aggroed.

I cannot personally testify to the authenticity of it, but it would not surprise me if it was real. If so, these people are way more guilty of what they are blaming on others than the others have ever been.

I think that we are up to about 10 cents total now. (LOL!)

Glad we are making $ :-). I totally agree that building fear is NOT helpful at all and telling a child that anyone wants to kill him seems like a terrible idea! There are however terrifying things happening nationwide right now, I have a friend in NC who witnessed a KKK rally in the middle of a town celebrating the election results....I don't think the "friends" of these people are making any of us afrraid, it's simply what we're seeing. Anyway, this is probably enough said! I appreciate the conversation and hope I haven't said anything to offend you or alienate you, I value your friendship here on Steemit and look forward to more of your enjoyable posts!

Agreed, agreed, and agreed!

I literally have Klan within half an hour of where we live, and the @papa-pepper family is not all "Caucasian".

Hot topics and touchy subjects, glad that we can handle them with respect and tact!

Here's a picture of what i controlled in the last "election".

Man, TRUMP one that too?

How did the Clinton supporters react there?

Bwaaahaaaahaaa! Trump could never win an election my galaxy. The Imperial education system is second to none.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Some excellent points here. Following you for future insights.

Edit: Just realised after reflecting a bit on your post that I know everyone on my street but when I tell others about it, such as when I mention that the chap down the street lost his home to the bank, people don't react with sympathy but treat it as an anecdote/cheap gossip. Or comprehend how after a storm the entire street cleaned off eachothers property. They don't get the concept of giving a rat's ass about one's neighbors' properties aside from being jealous of them where applicable. That level of hostility the difference between smalltown living and suburban life.

Ah, the only caring because of jealousy bit, that's a common one!

Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for sharing, interesting.

It is interesting.

Glad you enjoyed it!

I would have expected quite a few votes for Trump from the rust belt cities as well, but I can't tell from the map (because my knowledge of USA geography isn't all that good).

Great point. This is not just a country vs city phenomenon. I think it is a matter of culture generally. People are becoming more isolated and I think it is happening in rural areas too, just more slowly.

I grew up living next to a farm and had many friends who lived in the same area.

The atmosphere has slowly changed - partly it may be down to rich city dwellers often moving to houses in the country.

It happens a lot in England. It also can result in shrinkage of rural communities as younger people get priced out of the housing market due to it.

This can also heighten the divisions between those who grew up in rural areas and those who are considered city dwellers.

Fascinating discussion.

I agree, it is a very interesting discussion to be involved in.

Many variables exist in situations like this, and people can be very passionate about issues like this.

Yes definitely:)

Here is the story of a Pulitzer prize-winning journalist who lives in the suburbs near NYC. He went to the protest in Manhattan with his daughter. I encourage the read.
http://www.salon.com/2016/11/12/i-marched-with-my-daughter-and-got-arrested-and-im-proud/

I'll check that out later, thanks!

I'd be careful with this guy's broadbrush generalizations. Even in the 'red' counties, there are plenty of blues and in the 'blue' counties, there are plenty of reds.
As for protesters, there hasnt been much vandalism, in fact its been a 'coming together' for many many people.
And we'll never know, but if we're going to paint with broad brush, if the election had gone the other way, there would have also been protests (Trump was practically urging it with all his bogus 'rigged election' talk) and those red staters like their guns...(one good generalization deserves another ;-)

The more meaningful generalization, with actual numbers behind it, is that the blue areas on your map are where there is more and higher education and more wealth. People can interpret that for what its worth.

And in the end, Trump 's rhetoric during the campaign was extremely devisive (outright hate towards immigrants, refugees, people of color, women, the environment) and it looks like he is continuing down that path with the people he is considering appointing to his administration. A lot of people are quite distraught over this .

I included "may mean" in the title and "if... accurate" in the second sentence to be careful.

I realize that opinions vary, and this was the first time that I had heard this one.

Then it's not "things I learned", but "what some people say". I suggest looking at the map that shows results as shades of purple - and to look at smaller political boundaries like the precincts. Those can then be aggregated to whatever jurisdiction you are focusing on. I've looked at the purple maps from past elections and it's a whole different picture than putting counties as all red or all blue.

Most things that we learn come from others.

Also, if we learn about a theory, we are still learning about it, correct?

I had never been exposed to this theory, and learned about it earlier.

Just want to say that I laughed out loud at the end of this thread where you learned how dead people can have orgasms. That makes two of us on that score. I wonder if they actually learn they can do that, though. ; )

Learned about!

LEARNED ABOUT!

I did not "learn" that!!!!!!!!!

LOL! HERE

How about "I was exposed to an idea". And an idea is a long, long way from a theory. Either way, learning about something is so different than actually learning something. Learning about deer hunting is different than learning deer hunting. What did you really learn? I guess I will have to learn how folks are interpreting the Today I Learned tag, lol.

I saw one posted in that today about how dead people can have orgasms.

I think was learning about something too.

LOL!

Yeah. It's brand new, but I bet a lot is information and not application.

I get your point.

I'm sorry if I came off a bit on the offense, I tried to tie my comments to the comments of the man whom you spoke with. I know you were just putting it out there ;-)

No problem, I was just making sure that you were aware that I was merely exposed to the concept, and though it is only one of many factors, there seems to be some things that could be valid about it.

I am not trying to offend anyone either, I'm just thinking and sharing.

Still, thank you for that reply.

All you have to do is take a look at the New York election results.
http://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president/new-york/
There are 62 counties in NY, she won the major cities and "won" the state with 16 counties.
I couldn't agree more with the man's hypothesis.

Hmmm, more good evidence that his conclusion may be valid.

Thanks @merej99.

This is an interesting take. I'd like to see a breakdown of some of the other differences between "country and city folk". All I know is from that cartoon about the country cat who goes to visit his cousin in the city....;)

Lol! Cartoons are a great place to get information.

I tried to tell my teachers that...

Yeah, they can be pretty disconnected from reality!

If someone chooses not to know their neighbors, that's on them and their willingness to get to know people, not a function of whether they live in the city or country. Do you think your willingness to know your neighbors also was influenced by where you were, mentally and socially, at that stage of your life, and what you were focused on?

I believe that in any relationship, both parties play a role.

I may not have introduced myself to them, but they did not make the introduction to me either.

I was just reflecting on my life and considering whether or not that point could be valid.

I'll agree with your first statement, for sure. If only the Welcome Wagon ladies were still around, we would all have a helping hand for your second statement, lol. At least in my experience across several states, in larger towns, neighborhoods have monthly meetings where folks can get to know each other. They aren't homeowner associations, but neighborhood groups that meet in public facilities and talk about things that concern the neighborhood. A new person can go to those and make neighborhood friends and acquaintances quickly and spread out from there. Or just start with the next-door neighbors.

Community interaction, just for the sake of knowing and meeting people, (not for an agenda) is a lost art these days, but I'd hate to consider what interesting people may be living right around the corner that I would never meet without taking the effort to say hi (which is something that I would not have done 10 years ago.

Those neighborhood meetings are funny. The program part of the meeting is the excuse that people use to justify the socializing. We all have different interests and life situations, but we all live in the neighborhood -- just like a small town or rural area, really.

You might look into the works of John Calhoun my interpretation of which is that city people tend to be nukin futz. All of my life experience from traveling world wide in the military and traveling almost three millions miles as a Trucker support this idea.

Crazy.

The vote of the country is the vote of reason.
The vote of the city?...not so much.

Interesting take, not a popular view, but interesting nonetheless!

Thanks for chiming in!

You're welcome

I believe it is because they don't get their fingers into the soil.
All diseases seem to come from not enough contact with soil.

That, and they should have all killed, cleaned and cooked a chicken at least once in their lives.

Back to the chicken!

There is a certain connection that some people do lack.

Nice explanation of what happened, and is still happening!

Something sure is happening!

Indeed, whether its good or bad we wont know until the dust settles and we can look back on all of this.

The world may never know...