Who defines your property?
RE: Anarchy Misunderstood
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Anarchy Misunderstood
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LOL Change goalposts much?
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Just because you can't answer the fundamental question that defines your entire ideology doesn't mean I'm "changing goalposts".
My goal is to show you that you live in a fantasy world and if you can't answer that question, then it'll be a lot easier than I thought.
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We can answer it. It's not obscure or convoluted. And you did change the subject rather suddenly.
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It's not a change of subject. It's literally asking you to explain how you can do something under this fantasy philosophy. Instead of whining, how about answer the question? lmao
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Changing the subject isn't responsive to the prior dialogue, and is a tactical mistake. You demonstrate that my reply to your comment is irrefutable by moving to a new attack vector.
You are full of fail.
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weird, you can't even answer a simple question. Again, it's not changing the subject when I want to establish basic definitions for the purpose of a debate.
I'm guessing you don't debate in good faith often, or at all. This is strange. Why won't you answer the question?
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Your original statement that I replied to claimed that an apocalyptic wartorn dystopia was the only possible result of freedom.
WTF don't you defend your position from my reply that you have zero evidence to support that irrational belief?
Your pretense that you didn't change the subject is laughable, as is your retarded original claim. Society is not the state, and government isn't God. Government is what people do every day: they govern themselves in their conduct.
Everything you believe is that you are chattel, and can only survive in the corral your master's confine you in so they can parasitize your production more profitably.
Since your beliefs are based on lies you have been indoctrinated from birth to believe, you are incapable of rational discourse. Your incessant deployment of disinformation tactics such as moving the goalposts and shifting the burden of proof are all the proof of that anyone capable of rational thought needs.
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""freedom"". That's not what it is. Anarchy without equality is a death sentence for most people.
All you do is whine about first principles and things that mean nothing. "freedom" "liberty" blah blah buzzwords blah blah
You keep telling me what i believe (when I don't believe those things) and are concocting up some bizarre fanfictions about me to justify them.
Still haven't answered my basic question btw, pretty funny.
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Lockean property rights aren't something that rely on some individual's authority for definition. It is a simple matter of the cause and effect of human action.
Someone is the end consumer of every good and service. Who has the authority to consune and produce? Individuals. Voountary exchange and original appropriation seem a reasonable standard to define this right-of-use, do they not?
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Wrong answer. The right answer was: Government. Without government you wouldn't have your property. If you don't pay taxes, you lose your property, but I'm sure you know that.
Pretending that every "exchange" is equal is bizarre. Capitalism, at its core, is based on growth. Also, just because you didn't personally kill native people does not absolve you of your situation.
Now, we need to define what we think reasonable property allocation would be before we go on. I don't think any one person should own mansions or skyscrapers or plantations, or any other luxury mega-valued property type.
As far as right of use, from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs.
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Dogs and Octopi have property, yet no government. Every premise you believe is false.
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personal property and private property are different things, but either way that was the dumbest shit I've ever read in defense of ancap ideologies. Kudos!
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The personal/private property distinction doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps in the same way that voluntary/coercive hierarchy distinctions don't make sense to you?
Suppose I have a lawnmower. This is personal property. But I see an opportunity to do yard work for others, and hire someone to use my mower in this entrepreneurial venture. Suddenly I am exploiting a worker with my illicit private property, even though my employee did not need to invest in a mower, and he gets paid whether my startup yard service company makes a profit or not.
And then, remember that my profit is counted in the difference between income and expenses, my employee's profit calculation is dollars versus labor and time, and my customer's profit is calculated in cost versus service. It can be a win-win, with everyone "exploiting" the desires of everyone else according to their value scales such that everyone benefits. So I don't see a division between personal and private property or an inherent exploitation.
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Why should you profit from mowing lawns? Why can't you just live and die doing what you love for others that want to do the same?
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In this scenario, the person whose lawn was mowed profits by gaining a mowed lawn without expensing time and energy. I profit financially. Following the money only sees half of the equation, so no wonder it appears unequal. Further, the economy is not a fixed pie, so financial profit is not ipso facto proof of even equal exchange, much less exploitation.
People don't want to do most of the things that are necessary for a functional economy. Put simply, a lot of work just plain sucks. The market solution is a carrot. "Hey, if you do this for me, I'll pay you enough to make it worth your while." It is a decentralized, voluntary, anarchic solution.
As technology has advanced, and the expectations of workers have increased, automation has replaced human labor in many of those drudge work fields, and labor has transitioned more and more into less and less unpleasant forms, but the fact remains that necessary work sucks sometimes. You can't just hand-wave that away.
Money serves a very real purpose as a medium of exchange and a unit of account that informs all market participants through the price network. This informs workers of the benefit they can expect for their labor, and the benefit they can expect for their earnings. Is it any wonder so many in the political sphere want to manipulate money and set prices? And can you not see how price controls and money manipulation harm everyone in the real productive economy for the perverse profit of the political class?
The alternative to the market approach is the political approach. "That needs to be done. Do it (or fund it through taxes we demand) or I hurt you." This is what we see in authoritarian regimes, including the US and various self-professed socialist and communist regimes. It ain't anarchy. The US system was sold to the public under a veneer of pro-market rhetoric that collapses under scrutiny. Why can you not see through the socialist rhetoric behind self-professed socialist state programs?
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Right, you don't know what I mean by profit.
Profit means you gain something over someone else. You take extra. It's additional. I don't think we need profit in a society. I'm content mowing everyone's lawns if it meant I had no need to spend money on housing or other necessities. I don't think I should get a higher rank on the Capitalist Leaderboard because of it.
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Octopi eat each other.
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I have learned a lot about diversity as a biologist for a state agency, and believe your statement is based on misunderstanding what 'octopi' means.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/09/why-octopuses-are-building-small-cities-off-the-coast-of-australia/
You may find this interesting.
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Government doesn't create or protect property. Government by its very nature violates property. Taxation, eminent domain, civil asset forfeiture, registration, licensing, permits, fees, zoning laws, etc. are all violations of property. And when you suffer harm, government forbids competition with their monopoly in dispute resolution. Don't treat the sales pitch for government as gospel.
Why do you say those with greater ability are obligated to provide for those with greater need? Why does need grant authority to demand production? I say this as someone suffering from chronic illness, so understand that I am not a millionaire questioning why I should toss crumbs to the needy. How do other people owe me based on my need? That sounds like coercion, and I don't want to coerce, because I am an anarchist.
"From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs." Even Proudhon asked who determines these, and when there is a dispute, whose decision stands. It sounds nice, but is in reality a recipe for authoritarianism.
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So, if the government and the police force wasn't there, how would you define what your property is?
Our abilities are not vastly different from one another. No one is fundamentally better than anyone else on that level. It's pure fiction. Being "rich" is an illusion propagated by oligarchs who want to retain their own power. Strip everything away and put any two people in 130,000 BC and you'll find that we're all basically the same.
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